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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>
Cc: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
	 eliz@gnu.org,  acm@muc.de, dancol@dancol.org,
	 emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: `open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start` (was: cc-mode fontification feels random)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 09:14:49 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvv96ndwej.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bdbd19fa-9515-5baa-652c-122d1240807b@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:34:09 +0200")

> It was rather the use of the idiom "We can use hacks like this one".  I
> see `open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start' as a way to subdivide code
> into chunks that may be edited and processed independently.  Currently,
> we use a monolithic approach (one that works on the whole buffer from
> its beginning) for fontification and a chunk-wise approach (as in the
> default `beginning-of-defun') for editing proper.

I see two problems with `open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start` (opic0ids):

- The implementation was a lot simpler than what's needed for your
  notion of "chunk-wise editing", thus leading to somewhat arbitrary
  behaviors because we only used the opic0ids property when it was
  convenient, rather than using it at every place where it could change
  the behavior.

- this convention is imposed on top of the definition of the language,
  so it's like editing "C with the opic0ids convention" rather than
  editing "C".  This works fine if your file is indeed written in "C
  with the opic0ids convention", but no so well otherwise.  And that
  convention is specific to Emacs (I can imagine other editors
  supporting a similar convention, but most likely it won't be exactly
  the same one since it's not a widely known convention), so unless all
  the coders agree to use Emacs you'll probably want to enforce that
  convention via some kind of "sanity check" maybe running in a CI.

- I don't think a major mode for language Foo should default to
  assuming that the buffer is written in "Foo with the opic0ids
  convention".


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2021-06-09 13:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 274+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-04  3:16 cc-mode fontification feels random Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04  6:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04  7:10   ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-04 10:08     ` João Távora
2021-06-04 10:39       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:59         ` Philipp
2021-06-04 11:05           ` João Távora
2021-06-04 11:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 12:44               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-04 13:46               ` João Távora
2021-06-04 14:11                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 11:18           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 16:43       ` Jim Porter
     [not found]         ` <83k0n9l9pv.fsf@gnu.org>
2021-06-04 19:41           ` Jim Porter
2021-06-04 19:53             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 20:05               ` Jim Porter
2021-06-04 20:11                 ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05  6:51                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 10:14                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05 11:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 12:12                         ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05 13:23                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05 17:08                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-05 17:31                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05 17:32                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 18:46                     ` João Távora
2021-06-05  6:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  9:32                   ` João Távora
2021-06-05  9:59                     ` Ergus
2021-06-05 11:29                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 11:55                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-05 12:27                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 17:59                             ` Jim Porter
2021-06-05 18:56                               ` Daniel Martín
2021-06-05 12:43                         ` Ergus
2021-06-05 13:59                       ` Remote GUI Emacs really works (was: cc-mode fontification feels random) Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-05 11:25                     ` cc-mode fontification feels random Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  9:46                   ` Ergus
2021-06-05 11:27                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 20:14               ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-04 10:25     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:05   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 10:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:34       ` João Távora
2021-06-04 10:43         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 18:25         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-04 18:36           ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:11             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:16               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:33                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:51                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  0:29             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05  6:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:07           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:26             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:41       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:42 ` Ergus
2021-06-04 15:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-04 18:30   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 11:37     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 11:57       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 12:27         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 12:44           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 14:19             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 17:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 17:44       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 18:00         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 18:18           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 18:33             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 20:24               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 20:27                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 20:38                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 19:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 20:28               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07  7:35                 ` martin rudalics
2021-06-07 13:20                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07 13:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08  0:06                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 15:16                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07 15:58                     ` martin rudalics
2021-06-08  4:01                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-06-08 15:29                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 15:52                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 16:36                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 18:11                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 18:25                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 18:28                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 18:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 18:22                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-09 18:36                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 18:51                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-09 19:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 20:07                                       ` chad
2021-06-10  6:43                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 20:17                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-09 21:03                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10  2:21                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  6:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  6:58                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  7:19                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  6:39                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 16:46                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10 17:01                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:07                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10 17:22                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:33                                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10 17:39                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:40                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 17:44                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 16:11                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 17:53                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:02                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 18:22                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:28                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 19:12                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:23                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:47                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:32                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 19:46                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:50                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:42                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 19:31                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 19:57                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 23:25                                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-11 23:52                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-12  1:08                                                                 ` Ergus
2021-06-12  3:20                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 11:07                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12  6:58                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 11:01                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12 11:25                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:04                                                                         ` Ergus
2021-06-12 15:16                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:23                                                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-12 15:35                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 14:00                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 14:20                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 14:33                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 15:06                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:46                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  6:50                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  5:20                                                               ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 13:40                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 15:56                                                                   ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 16:59                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12 17:51                                                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 17:25                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 17:53                                                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 17:54                                                                       ` Ergus
2021-06-12 18:02                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12 18:39                                                                         ` Ergus
2021-06-12  6:38                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 13:44                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 14:14                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 20:06                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-12  6:44                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  8:00                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12  8:08                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  9:31                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:48                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:34                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10 17:26                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 17:39                                               ` andrés ramírez
2021-06-10 21:06                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11  6:14                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 15:16                                       ` Ergus
2021-06-10 15:34                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 19:06                                           ` Ergus
2021-06-10 19:28                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 21:56                                               ` Ergus
2021-06-10 15:59                                         ` Jim Porter
2021-06-10 21:02                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 20:21                                           ` Ergus
2021-06-11 20:27                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 20:37                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 20:52                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  6:46                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  8:03                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12  8:13                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 13:51                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  8:47                                                   ` Daniele Nicolodi
2021-06-12  8:57                                                     ` tomas
2021-06-12 14:04                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-09 19:05                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-09 19:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 20:20                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-09 20:36                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-10  7:01                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  7:21                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  2:21                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-19  9:25                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-19 15:24                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-09 14:06                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-11 18:12                                               ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-15 18:13                                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-15 22:43                                                   ` Tree Sitter (was Re: cc-mode fontification feels random) Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-19 23:49                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-20 14:53                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-21  0:04                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-21  1:28                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-07-21 14:43                                                             ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-21 16:21                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-21 19:15                                                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22  1:16                                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-22 13:18                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22 13:49                                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2021-07-24 20:05                                                                     ` [SPAM UNSURE] " Stephen Leake
2021-07-25  0:41                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-26  4:24                                                                         ` [SPAM UNSURE] " Stephen Leake
2021-07-25 18:01                                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22 14:00                                                           ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-24  1:17                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-07-25 16:13                                                               ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-25 19:52                                                                 ` Ada (was Re: Tree Sitter) Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26  5:05                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-26  9:42                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-26 14:01                                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26 13:45                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-27  0:26                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-07-27 12:38                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26  2:23                                                                 ` Tree Sitter (was Re: cc-mode fontification feels random) John Yates
2021-07-24 19:59                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-24 21:21                                                               ` OFF-TOPIC: Ada availability (was: Tree Sitter) Óscar Fuentes
2021-07-25  7:31                                                                 ` tomas
2021-06-08 18:11                             ` cc-mode fontification feels random Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 21:25                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-09  3:39                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-06-09  8:34                         ` martin rudalics
2021-06-09 13:14                           ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2021-06-09 15:15                             ` `open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start` (was: cc-mode fontification feels random) Yuri Khan
2021-06-09 15:16                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-12 17:29                           ` cc-mode fontification feels random João Távora
2021-06-13  8:50                             ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13  9:05                               ` João Távora
2021-06-13  9:39                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13 10:06                                   ` João Távora
2021-06-13 14:52                                     ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13 15:25                                       ` João Távora
2021-06-14  8:29                                         ` martin rudalics
2021-06-14  8:40                                           ` João Távora
2021-06-14  9:00                                             ` martin rudalics
2021-06-14  9:14                                               ` João Távora
2021-06-14 11:28                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-14 14:39                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-15 22:38                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-07 12:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 15:22                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 15:46                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 20:25   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-06 11:53     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 17:08       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-30 18:50 ` [PATCH] " Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-30 19:03   ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-08-30 19:18     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-30 19:25   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 19:28     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-30 19:37       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 20:11       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-31 10:54         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 13:23           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 16:02             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 16:21               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 16:46                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 17:02                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 18:56           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-31 21:17             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 21:47               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-22 20:13               ` [Committed PATCH] " Alan Mackenzie
2021-10-24 20:18                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 13:18         ` [PATCH] " Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 20:03     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 11:53       ` Eli Zaretskii

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