From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey 2022 - design Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:01 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87tu9oylo4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4020"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Timothy , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 18 00:22:54 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nr5af-0000nU-Kd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 18 May 2022 00:22:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40448 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nr5ae-0000Iz-Hw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:22:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45498) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nr5Z1-0007DS-Lc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:56031) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nr5Yy-00079M-Tz; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:10 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C21AD1005FD; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6AEF1100163; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:04 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1652826064; bh=nz+F5zwjTTZTkvCHhRuJ3O5OqmpbO9rrd4JrATM83tQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=W36ns7WnoVzQS5vAIdXUkf/UsG9utB7vK36uu611yLwUNz53EE8r4DkA/ZtRa2tbL IPCvXLD23PEamYi4EjrLkdAr1ntrmjePmEFd8gk9xV9xMiDI+mQHwPphDSxivehCyO igsjuvELrRckUx7rf9X59IxaxOIEvelKz//b2czv9Vyfp9x3pzi6wHhBV3GfDe6F1Z siazIVEM/9rd2taqUDwLt7RzLFdJHQOZN07BcN4fc7nN43Ys4nKaJ0OZkSI+S/cGMx IcJv8HsycmCy21ixdmHTJ7A5+XmxmAo+vvIfRjLes4h0q6NOj28hU0wJQyh9YaYd4l n8uxoxcvpTbxQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.221.51]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A7DE412025D; Tue, 17 May 2022 18:21:03 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87tu9oylo4.fsf@gnu.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Tue, 17 May 2022 21:52:52 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289885 Archived-At: >> `use-package` looks out of place, since I don't think it offers any >> facilities to download/install/update/uninstall packages. > Really? (use-package foobar :ensure t) will download and install the > foobar package. If it does that itself or tells package.el to do it > doesn't really matter. AFAIK it uses package.el for that, tho IIUC `straight.el` hooks into it so that it installs via `straight.el` for those who use that. In both cases, `use-package` delegates the job to an actual package manager rather than being a package manager itself. > FWIW, I'd select use-package in that question + package.el (for > deletion) and auto-package-update (missing!) for updates without having > to manually go through the *Packages* buffer. Then maybe we should distinguish between the "backend" (package.el here) and the UI layer on top of it (use-package, list-packages, auto-package-update, ...)? Stefan