From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sun, 03 May 2020 11:17:38 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9leqmss.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhapoz63.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="58977"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 17:18:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVGO0-000FFa-VQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 17:18:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVGO0-0003Xz-15 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 11:18:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49808) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVGNF-0002OH-5J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 11:17:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:55205) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVGND-00021T-MF; Sun, 03 May 2020 11:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4B17D100978; Sun, 3 May 2020 11:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3165010040C; Sun, 3 May 2020 11:17:40 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1588519060; bh=jbNnwkE+Y1Ajwp7VhqjAsz+itWHBkCLpg3KdOsZLgms=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=BBIb3VVoT2W+iUkw/FR65od5kgyydyoKEUT96kGYuj3ACAYzvoz32j6Hl/Fqafp78 deSgXWq+xUmthKZxA/J9hYgpvvrJE866iZTEx7DzsICGWvM0Nc5PYtCyMli3BvKTTx xgPYKBUEW+DAvb8SD5Gj4wcZAWEPFQwqVOoSV3rezQ0dAG57ylcq3rzQtsoh+MnfKU HWH/W1oyWbPQ7445N+OgrtIC0CS4S5nGsMZY/Uhvg8d1pw9jgj6PgVeYuuN1822AIt 1pK35Hx05YmQXkXt1jAIkQjPTSPmS2RFC2Aw/GUoBDOwVzG5mpdECji2yAdg19ydhO JL5QQg53mIpZQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9152A12072B; Sun, 3 May 2020 11:17:39 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83zhapoz63.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 03 May 2020 17:45:08 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/03 10:45:02 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248704 Archived-At: >> >> >> Typical examples: is it `multibyte-string-p` or `string-multibyte-p`, >> >> >> `file-name-absolute-p` or `absolute-file-name-p`, ... ? >> >> > Then "C-u C-h a WORDS..." is your friend. >> >> Nope, way too slow. >> > Is that the only problem? then let's speed it up, and Bob's our uncle. >> >> When I say "slow" I measure the time in number of hand movements. >> I'm in the middle of writing code, I might have already written `str` >> even and now I'd have to do `C-u C-h a str mul RET` and that will only >> display the answer, I still have to find it in the list and then arrange >> for it to make its way to my buffer. >> >> Compared to `-mul TAB`, I can't see any way the `C-h` route could be >> even remotely competitive. > > You seem to be measuring only the "speed" of your typing the input, > and disregard the time required to look over the results of the > completion or doc search and decide which is the one you want. The examples I give are not hypothetical and I know those functions very well. I just have trouble remembering which permutation is used. So there's no "look over the result" or "doc search" needed. I don't even need to bring up *Completions* at all. > Maybe you should use and hack Emacs more ;-) > Years of using Emacs with its superb documentation and elaborate The documentation satisfies a different need. This discussion is not about replacing the manual with something else. Stefan