From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: persistent data feature Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:58:56 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcil2sj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czm98qi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o85tcwm0.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874k7ljwkr.fsf@gnus.org> <87fsr5cuzq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1aphuei.fsf@gnus.org> <837dcex6ub.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl1p10js.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6893"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Richard Stallman , eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar.mena@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, Pip Cet , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 14:00:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvfVn-0001Zb-Ow for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 14:00:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33036 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvfVa-0001ym-UJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:00:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvfUX-0000Zn-Cj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:59:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:26116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvfUT-0005xO-Tq; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:59:12 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 996868044E; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:59:05 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 2680280224; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:59:04 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1639141144; bh=46CSkhRM+j/WpfTZCSPldcgXdW2kRTftUMITWtJWtnQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HHy7WnXPYgzqOOSjmaAM/Uwvcy9WDIuvf6CWxa7I+oQZmASlvjFhhdw5m3BneXORj ElES39UV8R/rlpphtYcGph2oSzwQqQYFVHkcQ82DIdVAFlj2CpNgBhU8lZ3UxIy0v1 LbM/R30ZnRYlPXPFxQUSEYIYMEwry8vfS/8wh6RpNCDlHeKlpBefn6GtP2hRZC+bj5 /WqsxEHnl6J2Lzu0WG6F9HcvcXSRNUyoKAzkL9Tgl9C/dmqPFZJJAD9QRACjs0i7Yv CyEihj6p+48J4jTsa76Mmy1xWQeDYKfmqYqjekJrCUQ3sg015P/oQiyXL+0HtMEJVS OxsBWsXQ2rJgQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.30.173]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2E16120254; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:59:03 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87bl1p10js.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:39:03 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281591 Archived-At: >> If we provide a feature for storing persistent Lisp data, I contend >> that the default option should be to store it in a purely textual file. >> >> Many users will not store large amounts of data, and a textual file >> would be much less risk-prone than any other method. > > There will, of course, be large amounts of data, and that will be slow. > (People already do this with a number things, and the results are > predictably sluggish.) To help me understand this discussion, I think it would help me to have examples of such large databases currently implemented as text files, along with an idea of what "large" means in this context (how many MBs) and where the "slow"ness manifests itself. Stefan