From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [jerome.marant@free.fr: Re: Possible help with stable Emacs releases.] Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:53:14 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <1096291271.415813c757a26@imp6-q.free.fr> <20040927134714.GA20012@fencepost> <87hdphx91c.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <87655wswkv.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <871xgejdk7.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <874ql9i60e.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1096988070 30477 80.91.229.6 (5 Oct 2004 14:54:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:54:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Francesco Potorti` , rms@gnu.org, Jerome Marant , emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" , Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 05 16:54:18 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CEqhl-0001qH-00 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:54:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEqoP-0000iE-TH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:01:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEqoI-0000hw-Lw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CEqoH-0000hV-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEqoH-0000hS-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:01:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CEqgq-0006Mq-Os; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0325F8282A9; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1264AC6A9; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 2BE878CA23; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Rob Browning In-Reply-To: <874ql9i60e.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> (Rob Browning's message of "Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:39:13 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=0, requis 5) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27938 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27938 > I'm not sure what kind of improvements you're suggesting, and for > which kinds of problems, but I don't recall a situation where we > *can't* accomodate multiple installs of something in Debian. It's > just a matter of how much hassle it is and how far we have to diverge > from the upstream code, and that's usually determined by how much > attention the upstream developers have paid to the issue. (It's also, > depending on the package, a question of manpower.) Just as it is possible if you don't use packages, it should be possible for the end user to decide that she wants to install Emacs versions 20.3, 20.4, 21.1, 21.2, and 21.3. > This blame (though not generally in the case of emacs) may lay as much > at the feet of the upstream developers as the downstream packagers > (speaking as one who works on both sides). Using package systems like `depot' or `stow', I haven't had any trouble with any existing package. No need for special support from the upstream developer. > If the upstream hasn't > ever considered the problem, then it can be very difficult, and > require substantial hacking, to alter the upstream to handle multiple > installed versions. This can be further hindered by the available OS > and tools. For example, the fact that dlopen doesn't support > versioning the way that ld.so does can make it difficult to allow > multiply installed versions of software that relies on dlopened > libraries, unless the upstream has considered that problem and chosen > suitably unique library *names* for those libraries. You don't need to change the name, just the directory in which to search for the lib. Stefan