From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: vertical scrollbar error on MS Windows Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:02 -0500 Message-ID: References: <001401c7554e$bbd42100$2446fe91@j4f3n1> <009401c75611$3782cbe0$351b90d4@j4f3n1> <002c01c75aa4$875cf0e0$8144fe91@j4f3n1> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1172617010 25850 80.91.229.12 (27 Feb 2007 22:56:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "grischka" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 27 23:56:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HMBFQ-0001z8-Oi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:56:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMBFQ-0006at-MB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HMBFG-0006ae-8l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:30 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HMBFB-0006aR-TN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HMBFB-0006aO-JU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:25 -0500 Original-Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HMBFB-0005Nm-0Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:25 -0500 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85DCA2CF062; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:24 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E5F43FE1; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:02 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 337866C80A; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:56:02 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <002c01c75aa4$875cf0e0$8144fe91@j4f3n1> (grischka's message of "Tue\, 27 Feb 2007 20\:19\:23 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:66969 Archived-At: >> If I understand correctly what you mean, then the Xaw behavior is exactly >> what we want. That leaves it to the application to decide whether the >> thumb can "slide past the end" or not. > Xaw certainly has its nostalgic charme with its own behaviour > and design. But, no, I don't think you want Xaw behaviour with > windows scrollbars. Not even with GTK scrollbars, really. I sure do. >> A slider that slides past the end is not a problem, really. >> You seem to dislike it, could you explain why? > Actually I don't know what it means. An end where it can > go past is not the end, no? So you don't like it because .... you don't know what it means? Why would you want to "know what it means"? > Ah, okay, maybe you see it differently. Such that the slider > does not shrink on bottom, but actually slips into some > slit in the frame. Is it that? A scrollbar is nothing more than a bunch of pixels that give you some rough idea of where you are (and how much of the rest there is left to see), along with some way to move with the use of a mouse. I believe that confining oneself strictly to some analogy to the physical world is just plain dumb. What's the benefit, concretely? No user has ever complained that she doesn't understand how Emacs scrollbars work just because they "slide off the end". When the thumb slides off the end, all users know immediately that it "has slid off the end": they understand it completely intuitively. Only GUI-nitpickers get annoyed that it doesn't conform to some model. Stefan