From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar bug on OS X Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:14:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7ca1709813602da58a139cee58fb4c63@gmail.com> <3b9c4e2f33d37fed55f640dcafbc8d65@gmail.com> <87is31i8jq.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <0ba853825b580f74347416c2c0b4a169@gmail.com> <87vf70ausz.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <5b72982df8c370d3a58358de397046c8@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1112807800 25789 80.91.229.2 (6 Apr 2005 17:16:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:16:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 06 19:16:38 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJE7e-0001Aa-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:15:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJDgm-0008JY-R8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:47:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DJDgI-0008Fo-Bo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJDgI-0008Df-3o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DJE7b-0003LZ-OA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:15:19 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4221E340003; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61ED14AC20F; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4080EE6C1F; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: David Reitter In-Reply-To: <5b72982df8c370d3a58358de397046c8@gmail.com> (David Reitter's message of "Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:32:14 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-4.83, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.07, BAYES_00 -4.90) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:35642 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:35642 > I acknowledge your explanations on the other points - thanks. In the UI that > I'd like to implement in order to conform to standards in my environment, > the vertical slider size shows a proportion of _ displayed lines_ not > document characters or real lines (those that end with a CR or LF). Whether Since the height of lines can vary, the number of displayed lines can change from one part of the buffer to another, so it's still not stable. You really need to use the pixel size. > visual change on the screen is more", and that b) both Windows and Mac > software has sliders with a stable size. The closest kind of software would be things like web-browsers for which some details are relevant: - the slider size changes as the page is being filled and rendered, so it's not nearly as stable as you make it out to be. - html pages are typically small and web-browsers's algorithms are taylored for that case, they tend to become unusable when browsing large pages (like more than a megabyte), whereas it is considered important for Emacs to be able to comfortably edit multi-MB files (although there is also a limit). - html-rendering becomes even more unusable if you start to actually interactively edit the 1MB page. I.e. it's not just that Emacs hackers are incompetent, but it's that the problem is difficult. > Is there a way to store count-screen-lines statically and just update it > when necessary? Of course. That's one of the tricks we'd have to use in order to get "stable" slider sizes. Problem is, I haven't yet heard of other useful things we could do with that kind of extra info, so again: the amount of work seems unjustified. Stefan