* Re: feature/native-comp 007a5a6 1/2: [WIP] Add and improve section headings [not found] ` <20201118142128.ABB2420521@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> @ 2020-11-18 14:41 ` Stefan Kangas 2020-11-18 16:11 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-11-18 14:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonas Bernoulli, emacs-devel jonas@bernoul.li (Jonas Bernoulli) writes: > branch: feature/native-comp > commit 007a5a677573ab628426a0605eb38f8e68fe1953 > Author: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> > Commit: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> > > [WIP] Add and improve section headings > --- > lisp/allout.el | 9 +++++---- > lisp/icomplete.el | 9 +++++---- > lisp/net/eudc.el | 8 ++++++-- > 3 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-) Is there any particular reason for making this change on the native-comp branch and not on master? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: feature/native-comp 007a5a6 1/2: [WIP] Add and improve section headings 2020-11-18 14:41 ` feature/native-comp 007a5a6 1/2: [WIP] Add and improve section headings Stefan Kangas @ 2020-11-18 16:11 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-11-18 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: Jonas Bernoulli, emacs-devel Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > jonas@bernoul.li (Jonas Bernoulli) writes: > >> branch: feature/native-comp >> commit 007a5a677573ab628426a0605eb38f8e68fe1953 >> Author: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >> Commit: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >> >> [WIP] Add and improve section headings >> --- >> lisp/allout.el | 9 +++++---- >> lisp/icomplete.el | 9 +++++---- >> lisp/net/eudc.el | 8 ++++++-- >> 3 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-) > > Is there any particular reason for making this change on the native-comp > branch and not on master? Wow native-comp is the new master! :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <20201118142128.E137D20D1E@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>]
* Re: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature [not found] ` <20201118142128.E137D20D1E@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> @ 2020-11-18 15:17 ` Robert Pluim 2020-11-18 17:10 ` Jonas Bernoulli 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2020-11-18 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Jonas Bernoulli jonas@bernoul.li (Jonas Bernoulli) writes: > branch: feature/native-comp > commit c36b4eed2d76f0e804d27d35dd6281f858639f94 > Author: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> > Commit: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> > > [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature > --- > lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el | 11 ----------- > 1 file changed, 11 deletions(-) > Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on this feature, but just removing it without discussion seems a little harsh. Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature 2020-11-18 15:17 ` feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature Robert Pluim @ 2020-11-18 17:10 ` Jonas Bernoulli 2020-11-18 17:34 ` Silencing warnings with a button (was: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature) Stefan Monnier 2020-11-18 17:37 ` feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Jonas Bernoulli @ 2020-11-18 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim, emacs-devel Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > jonas@bernoul.li (Jonas Bernoulli) writes: > >> branch: feature/native-comp >> commit c36b4eed2d76f0e804d27d35dd6281f858639f94 >> Author: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >> Commit: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >> >> [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature >> --- >> lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el | 11 ----------- >> 1 file changed, 11 deletions(-) >> > > Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on this feature, but just > removing it without discussion seems a little harsh. > > Robert That was an accidental push. I do think it would be best to remove this new feature completely, but of course I would have raised the issue before *intentionally* removing it. This is why I think this is not a good feature: People will make use of it. Longer version: Of course it is nice for users who don't know any elisp to opt-out of seeing warnings that they cannot understand, but I fear that users who could contribute by addressing these issues or by at least reporting them, will opt-out as well. Even some package authors are going to enable this, possibly because they misunderstand what it does. I did that for example. I thought it would disable "that particular" warning; not all of them. I then had to figure out how to revert that setting, there wasn't any button for that. Also in some contexts the buttons cause the actual warning message to be truncated. For example lazy native compilation shows only the first line of each warning and if a third of that line is used up by the buttons that are the same for each and every warning, that can turn a sufficiently informative warning into guess work. I am involved in an uphill battle, fixing the endless stream of compile warnings for the packages that are installed on my system. It would be nice if more people did that. Yes, these warning are a bit annoying but the underlying issues are not going away if we make it easier to ignore them. I don't use package.el and don't know what happens if there are warnings during package installation. If the problem is that noobs get confused because a buffer pops up with warnings that they don't understand, then we could prevent that buffer from poping up by default. Going further than that seems like an own goal. Jonas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Silencing warnings with a button (was: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature) 2020-11-18 17:10 ` Jonas Bernoulli @ 2020-11-18 17:34 ` Stefan Monnier 2020-11-18 17:37 ` feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2020-11-18 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonas Bernoulli; +Cc: Robert Pluim, emacs-devel > This is why I think this is not a good feature: > > People will make use of it. > > Longer version: Of course it is nice for users who don't know any elisp > to opt-out of seeing warnings that they cannot understand, but I fear > that users who could contribute by addressing these issues or by at > least reporting them, will opt-out as well. FWIW, I tend to agree. I understand that exposing end-users to warnings is somewhat problematic, but I think a better solution is to try and make sure they're presented in a way that is understandable. E.g. make sure that the users don't go "oh god, it's all messed up now, what do I do?", and instead somehow explain: - these are usually harmless (for the end users). - these should be reported to the package maintainers (some of whom would never see these warnings otherwise, because they never compile their own package nor install it via package.el). E.g., instead of having buttons to silence the warnings, maybe we should have buttons to "report to maintainers". Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature 2020-11-18 17:10 ` Jonas Bernoulli 2020-11-18 17:34 ` Silencing warnings with a button (was: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature) Stefan Monnier @ 2020-11-18 17:37 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. @ 2020-11-18 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonas Bernoulli; +Cc: Robert Pluim, emacs-devel Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> jonas@bernoul.li (Jonas Bernoulli) writes: >> >>> branch: feature/native-comp >>> commit c36b4eed2d76f0e804d27d35dd6281f858639f94 >>> Author: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >>> Commit: Jonas Bernoulli <jonas@bernoul.li> >>> >>> [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature >>> --- >>> lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.el | 11 ----------- >>> 1 file changed, 11 deletions(-) >>> >> >> Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on this feature, but just >> removing it without discussion seems a little harsh. >> >> Robert > > That was an accidental push. I do think it would be best to remove > this new feature completely, but of course I would have raised the > issue before *intentionally* removing it. Hi Jonas, thanks for the revert, please next time specify the reason of the revert in the commit, (as I've recently discovered) this is the conventional way to proceed :) Ciao Andrea ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-11-18 17:37 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20201118142127.27797.43745@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> [not found] ` <20201118142128.ABB2420521@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> 2020-11-18 14:41 ` feature/native-comp 007a5a6 1/2: [WIP] Add and improve section headings Stefan Kangas 2020-11-18 16:11 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. [not found] ` <20201118142128.E137D20D1E@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> 2020-11-18 15:17 ` feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature Robert Pluim 2020-11-18 17:10 ` Jonas Bernoulli 2020-11-18 17:34 ` Silencing warnings with a button (was: feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature) Stefan Monnier 2020-11-18 17:37 ` feature/native-comp c36b4ee 2/2: [TODO] Remove noisy anti-noise feature Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
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