From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 16:59:10 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83lf25gm1j.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee7xgio2.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssdrp54.fsf@db48x.net> <831r3xgfz3.fsf@gnu.org> <87v918qx37.fsf@db48x.net> <83o870fjqg.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0hnqr1v.fsf@db48x.net> <83ee7vdped.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6ijdnzv.fsf@gnu.org> <834k8qer8j.fsf@gnu.org> <831r3uelbn.fsf@gnu.org> <5ad1d47cbdc0838d598c@heytings.org> <83k0hlblvm.fsf@gnu.org> <7cc91c798e37e63cc6fa@heytings.org> <83wnli5r60.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26647"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Gregory Heytings , cpitclaudel@gmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, db48x@db48x.net, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 08 23:00:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mkCgm-0006ia-6F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 23:00:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkCgk-0003BL-RS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 17:00:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51550) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkCfg-0002Su-6f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 16:59:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:12457) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mkCfc-0008JG-TL; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 16:59:19 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 48F00803DC; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:59:14 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8FD3A801E9; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:59:12 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1636408752; bh=dHSyb5aUVMvjjCP1Iwc8Yorwmgj7sf02PgxYmDIoJWg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=erOyaEjGApmvzd+qyJBKxgaWhDCqurZNpxNiOSppxKTgbuVtuTf+tPQrncYgVJQ7t BeW95r11F/xbNAospA1GsNA3bLNhjjnYhPNdx7FpdqYMcYM1zAO99Hc2XhsK2LOk5A pa7BWgbYoQcVJCsjTPVu57vYFeeNst1zGXlJLscOI9YKGzUtBuwEWiYgZYDUsFv0y+ 20HNsUqleucqkNWP3hm/jlLoIO/NJSGVTww5kNwZrKZhM9/33zDAa7r3lun8XJEN0a yXXmsugIJeM4irAZl44aMkhwcokwGLyEOQW2FkU1/C2miN59AhsdFfSXGU1MreV3i3 jzw1ZbDglQiLQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.241.23]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E8101205F7; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:59:12 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83wnli5r60.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 08 Nov 2021 22:27:35 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:279063 Archived-At: > So I can only conclude that you don't understand the issues well > enough to judge what is or isn't a good solution for them. >From what I've read, I get the feeling that nobody truly understands it, actually. > Which isn't surprising: this stuff is very complex and takes years to > wrap the head around it. Also it requires understanding the human factor, and that is affected by that human's past experience and habits, so I suspect that there isn't a "one size fits all" solution. Of course, once you start to look for "unnoticed attacks" in source code, beside bidi and confusables, there's a host of other tricks you can play. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underhanded_C_Contest for examples. Stefan