From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation for custom-file - is not (load custom-file) needed? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: References: <075b01c4d9a4$52799460$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <00bb01c4daee$5eb81350$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <200412051733.iB5HXIX13206@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <000001c4db1a$8d3770f0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <200412060046.iB60kZj15003@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <003e01c4db31$e45a2550$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <200412060402.iB6421q15173@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200412070539.iB75dV924747@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200412090220.iB92KHR16407@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <874qiusno3.fsf@jurta.org> <00d101c4ded0$37cad4e0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <87653am6wd.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <00e301c4dee7$283b19b0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1102711347 6730 80.91.229.6 (10 Dec 2004 20:42:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:42:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 21:42:20 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ccram-0002id-00 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:42:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccrkk-0003ZW-6a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:52:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CcrkS-0003ZP-Ls for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:52:20 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CcrkR-0003Yp-M3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:52:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcrkR-0003Yk-Hn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:52:19 -0500 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ccra8-00008A-PU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:41:40 -0500 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8C88282B7; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:41:40 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791082CC008; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:57 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 23BC98CA69; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:56 -0500 (EST) Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" In-Reply-To: <00e301c4dee7$283b19b0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:36:07 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-4.455, requis 5, AWL 0.45, BAYES_00 -4.90) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:30980 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:30980 >> W.r.t removing custom-file: some users may set custom-file in their .emacs >> and expect it to do something, so we may as well keep it. > Sorry, I disagree on this. The only thing I really can think of where > custom-file is used to do something is in CVS Emacs where custom-file is > loaded by startup.el if it was not loaded before. I do not think it is any > big problem if this does not work any more since it is only in CVS. That is > not to say I do not like the feature, it is just that I believe it would be > good to get rid of the name custom-file since it could be in > (custom-set-variables ...) right now and that could cause problems as we > have seen earlier in this discussion. I just don't see the benefit in removing it. If someone set it via defcustom he's already screwed and none of the changes we plan on making are going to make things worse for him, AFAICT. >> After all, when moving the custom file, you need to tell future Emacsen >> where it'll be, so you need to change your .emacs to either >> (setq custom-file "newfile") or (load "newfile"). Just M-C-x won't cut it. > I am not sure about this, What are you not sure about? About the need to add/change the `load' or `setq' statement? How else do you intend to make future Emacsen aware of the new location? > but I can see situations where it would be good if eval set the "custom > file". No, I think this would be very wrong. THE custom file should only be set by a very explicit user action. Not just by eval'ing some random expression that might contain a custom-set-variables. > Agree, except that I believe we should immidieately also change the name of > custom-file to something else, perhaps custom-file-in-use (since it is going > to be set by custom-set-variables). No: custom-file should not be set by custom-set-variables. It should only be set/changed explicitly by a user action. custom-set-variables should only record which files call custom-set-variables, to later on help decide which custom file to use. Again my sugestion is to (for now) only introduce custom-files and only use it to double-check the value of custom-file. In a subsequent step we can change custom-file so that when it is nil, it means "use the file found in custom-files" (in which case custom-set-variables would indeed indirectly set the custom file, tho setting custom-file explicitly would still take precedence, or at least cause some prompting to occur). `custom-file' is a user variable and should thus never be changed behind the user's back. Stefan