From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: Forwards-Compatibility Library for Emacs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:53:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <877dfavmzw.fsf@posteo.net> <87czp2c6qd.fsf@gnus.org> <87o88lr63i.fsf@posteo.net> <87k0j9qf5t.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15357"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 22 19:56:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mT6TZ-0003jW-1W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:56:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32852 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT6TX-0001HT-Jc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:56:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39646) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT6Rd-00084z-5y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:54:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:65235) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT6RZ-0001o7-Cy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:54:07 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8416C4413B1; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 254C3441383; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:53:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1632333238; bh=seXzvSwA7QZO81MCpeulPzqy5zWbt1wvjYsUyU8Hrbc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ND3UyYMHm/AvHvN89wKi87/zpCqSomSJqs5BJkn4TlB6IZI+nzRxTKI8YA/afuG0y 70JThBadDZbJA6MJpnFNBWfXk+FSYNco6O5x8uY5fQi5WSmO1/CNokhcomQjEzOueM 7Gy7qqe87vyYBm+DdQ8eAhGKvFAYM52mpOVVaDaey1Guq8mnMeZSM7cARde2/nSblh chnCc+EFxPEU/gLxP9IFgj+Jt0fA0OTmTv2PgYDYcT6R887z+JW02e5a4USOJtgsyJ WFx+WOlMYXOQnbq6KWKFVrSrwbetY6rqtQjywWEPpJDXElWt/vy+fzB/otwCzMs8pd Js2jpy0fbyJTQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.241.23]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EBEBE120296; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:53:57 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87k0j9qf5t.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:48:30 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275329 Archived-At: My conclusion is that it all depends and it can't really be decided in the abstract. So, if you show a prototype things will be much more clear. Stefan Philip Kaludercic [2021-09-22 06:48:30] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> I am not sure how this would help provide forwards compatibility for >>> older versions? Are you proposing that instead of using >>> file-name-concat, libraries use compat28-file-name-concat that is >>> defined in a library for older versions? >> >> Yes. >> >>> My intuition would be that this wouldn't be worth the effort, seeing as >>> most people would probably hesitate to use such long names. >> >> If the function is important enough that the author would otherwise make >> its own local function, then I think they'd be happy to use that >> slightly longer name rather than having their own local definition. >> >> If not, then it's probably just as well if they simply don't use it >> (and that should avoid having the compatibility library accrue >> too many definitions of too little value). > > This I'd describe as compatibility for convenience, but there are also > examples where core ELPA implement general algorithms and functionality > that could be used elsewhere too (project--buffers-to-kill and > project--kill-buffer-check were mentioned as one example last year). But > they cannot be factored out, because that would raise the minimal > required version. The complementary example are external packages that > hesitate to use newer functionality, for the same reason (I already gave > the example of the second optional "interactive" argument). The > infrastructure may not exist, but for anyone before Emacs 28, this could > just be ignored away, while newer users get to keep it. > >> Stefan >>