From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32876"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 21:47:26 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLTBN-0008Kx-8G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 21:47:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLTAM-0006xk-9t; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLTAK-0006xI-Ph for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLTAI-000062-Lt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:20 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 41A52100120; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:16 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1719171975; bh=TjkUEi0WN2uaHVNj8MskUrgh5bjEuFjoDqhBn5hpMlk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=LHY+KWRMbftKGb6fu6kFWwBUQlETM6TAJQmLV9MdSLvbrFnQAoN71/59lTV8RgUYf bWVVN4Rflx1dXn9KLpLgAJQ9PwtIVs3kQXHBAxZ5kPT5eWbE/LJjAR2LT90NSsH2KX Fqeo8wgb9+Kq/b3FyNvXRA3TIv+47wSszkXAd5wc5PRdN8QQQnLcqbcKMWw2g3fkif KbNTFwWkHbRSoM8yjT8qUn6Mhc1cHV81lJavNJuMnmMaq8eCUrtaU21WL6YMrBQYJO qmHdCbWKv+uEWtHZ458ryxD/CWgoTRR/3zX+63PIoGi0dnBq/M1D6tgofpA0AbXNW0 Sk3iu2VMUYMHQ== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1AE9F100048; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [24.140.236.196]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E19BC12026C; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:46:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:14:36 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320566 Archived-At: >> Opt-out collection of anonymous metrics has been an industry standard >> for many years now. > Whatever "industry standard" means. Industry standard is > surveillance capitalism these days. Not something to strive > for, not in free software's context, I think. Yup, I'd be happy to see some kind of statistics-gathering system included in Emacs if it can help us decide how to evolve the projects and its default settings, but it definitely needs to be opt-in: Emacs should never contact a host without the user "explicitly" requesting it (there's some wiggle room about what "explicitly" can mean, admittedly, but in terms of sending telemetry it's pretty clear to me that it needs to be opt-in). Stefan