From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: visual-line-mode Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:49:54 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87skuqbwr8.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <85E9BC5B-7337-4CD4-A783-6B2FAEBAEBCA@gmail.com> <87tzf6c5il.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87abgxx0ju.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D997CA8-A2ED-4E12-9F91-76E98AE95210@gmail.com> <87prpsjhre.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <375C0006-2B47-4B1F-9EB2-ED47941C2DB3@gmail.com> <87od56tp4o.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <71C2D50C-1680-4ADD-A7E3-7B7A1146B85D@gmail.com> <87ej61n19h.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87vdzdr6f6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87fxqhpblm.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87iqvdrq92.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <41BE2BC8-BA2A-449E-B42A-25AA21AD7B22@gmail.com> <87y7486tux.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <85ej60ru6t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215827417 353 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2008 01:50:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:50:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Reitter , Chong Yidong , Emacs-Devel devel , "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Miles Bader To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 12 03:51:03 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KHUGM-0002UQ-Mk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:51:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53399 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHUFU-0003Ps-TT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHUFQ-0003PX-3F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:50:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHUFP-0003P5-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43601 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHUFP-0003P2-2E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:10785) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KHUFH-0002Ck-GP; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:49:55 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnEDADCqd0jO+IfCdGdsb2JhbACBWpBSASeXRIFo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.30,348,1212379200"; d="scan'208";a="24250516" Original-Received: from 206-248-135-194.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.135.194]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 11 Jul 2008 21:49:54 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 862D1897A; Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:49:54 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <85ej60ru6t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:23:54 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100600 Archived-At: > I think it depends on what you use it for. If you are editing code, > there is usually little overflow, and the overflow you have ends at an > easily recognizable place, and the hard newlines carry meaning. > If you are editing a novel where every paragraph is written without > newlines, wrapping just being done to accommodate the editing window > (but irrelevant for the result), you want to be able to edit and > navigate with finer grained units than whole paragraphs. Agreed. That's why I think we need a separate minor mode for it. So, if we consider the difference between TL (text lines) and VL (visual lines), and also the difference between C-n/C-p and the other line commands (C-a, C-e, C-k, others?): It clearly makes sense to use TL for all commands (what we've done until now), and it also makes sense to use VL for all commands (as provided by David Reitter's code). I don't think it makes sense to use TL for C-n/C-p and VL for the rest. But should we support the combination of VL for C-n/C-p and TL for the rest? That's what I've been using recently and I like it, so I think it makes sense. I'm even tempted to make it the default. But its internal inconsistence is a bit troublesome. Stefan