* instead of gnus-cloud.el [not found] <87k2gs8bak.fsf@lifelogs.com> @ 2016-07-12 5:10 ` Richard Stallman 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2016-07-12 5:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Teodor Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The term "cloud computing" clouds users minds; it discourages them from asking crucial questions, such as "Whose computer is that, in which country, and what exactly are they asking me to entrust to it?" It fuzzes all the different uses of the network together. So we urge people to reject the term "cloud." See http://gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html. Thus, I was perturbed to see that a file in Gnus grants legitimacy to the term "cloud" by using it. The name ought to be changed. I was going to suggest another name based on what the file does. But I can't figure out what it does. The only explanation is one line at the top of the file, and it doesn't say much. That is bad maintenance. Would someone like to add comments sufficient to understand what the code does? And please show them to me. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 5:10 ` instead of gnus-cloud.el Richard Stallman @ 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 13:04 ` Richard Stallman 2016-07-13 13:52 ` Stefan Monnier 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-12 7:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Stallman; +Cc: Teodor Zlatanov, emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > Thus, I was perturbed to see that a file in Gnus grants legitimacy > to the term "cloud" by using it. The name ought to be changed. The name is humorous -- a parody of the term "cloud computing". > I was going to suggest another name based on what the file does. > But I can't figure out what it does. The only explanation is one > line at the top of the file, and it doesn't say much. That is > bad maintenance. It's a feature under development, and is not used by anybody, so documentation of this non-existing feature would be premature. Up until very recently we weren't quite sure what it was going to look like, but it's shaping up now. It's a mechanism for storing data (in the first implementation, Gnus data) on your local IMAP server, so that you can access your Emacs environment from all the machines you use Emacs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-13 13:04 ` Richard Stallman 2016-07-13 13:52 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2016-07-13 13:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: tzz, emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > It's a feature under development, and is not used by anybody, so > documentation of this non-existing feature would be premature. Writing for the manual later is ok, but it should have comments in the file now, don't you think? > The name is humorous -- a parody of the term "cloud computing". What is the joke? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 13:04 ` Richard Stallman @ 2016-07-13 13:52 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2016-07-13 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel > It's a mechanism for storing data (in the first implementation, Gnus > data) on your local IMAP server, so that you can access your Emacs > environment from all the machines you use Emacs. BTW, the text says "imap" but the code (and the name) doesn't look specific to imap (other than a call to nnimap-request-articles). Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 5:10 ` instead of gnus-cloud.el Richard Stallman 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 2016-07-12 15:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 13:06 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2016-07-12 13:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 01:10:55 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: RS> The term "cloud computing" clouds users minds; it discourages them RS> from asking crucial questions, such as "Whose computer is that, in RS> which country, and what exactly are they asking me to entrust to it?" RS> It fuzzes all the different uses of the network together. So we urge RS> people to reject the term "cloud." See RS> http://gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html. RS> Thus, I was perturbed to see that a file in Gnus grants legitimacy RS> to the term "cloud" by using it. The name ought to be changed. RS> I was going to suggest another name based on what the file does. RS> But I can't figure out what it does. The only explanation is one RS> line at the top of the file, and it doesn't say much. That is RS> bad maintenance. Like Lars, I think this is funny because it's entirely unlike the "cloud" in "cloud computing." It lets the user store their files, Gnus, and other settings on an IMAP server they can control. If "cloud" is really unacceptable, this replaces gnus-sync.el so maybe it could take that name. But I would rather explain the joke in the commentary. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2016-07-12 15:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 14:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 2016-07-13 13:06 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-12 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > If "cloud" is really unacceptable, this replaces gnus-sync.el so maybe > it could take that name. But I would rather explain the joke in the > commentary. It would be a nice place to put the required "the cloud is just someone else's computer" saying into the Emacs manual. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 15:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-13 14:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2016-07-13 14:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 17:50:31 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:06:34 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: >> If "cloud" is really unacceptable, this replaces gnus-sync.el so maybe >> it could take that name. But I would rather explain the joke in the >> commentary. RS> That joke might be funny, if it were presented clearly enough that RS> people could get it. RS> But please don't put the joke in the file name. Most people who see RS> the file name won't know it is a joke. With them, it will really encourage RS> the harmful "cloud" meme. OK, I'll let you and Lars and the maintainers figure it out. Let's do the rename, if that's the decision, after the current gnus-cloud code is reviewed and merged, or it will get confusing (because the feature branch currently removes the old gnus-sync.el). On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:04:48 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: RS> Writing for the manual later is ok, but it should have comments in the RS> file now, don't you think? I already documented many of the gnus-cloud.el functions in my feature branch. I'll add more docs to the code and expand the manual after it's merged, since it's still in progress. On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:52:56 -0400 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: SM> BTW, the text says "imap" but the code (and the name) doesn't look SM> specific to imap (other than a call to nnimap-request-articles). Yeah, indeed it may work with nnml right now, but we want to use IMAP features in the future. For instance I think the native IMAP unique article ID from https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-2.3.1 will be better than the current `gnus-cloud-sequence' defvar. And IMAP flags may be good for separating full vs. incremental updates, which currently are encoded in the article subject. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: instead of gnus-cloud.el 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 2016-07-12 15:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2016-07-13 13:06 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2016-07-13 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: emacs-devel [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If "cloud" is really unacceptable, this replaces gnus-sync.el so maybe > it could take that name. But I would rather explain the joke in the > commentary. That joke might be funny, if it were presented clearly enough that people could get it. But please don't put the joke in the file name. Most people who see the file name won't know it is a joke. With them, it will really encourage the harmful "cloud" meme. The name of something generally has more PR effect than the substance. If the effect of the name is bad, it is impossible for the substance to cancel that out. So always use a name that doesn't have a bad PR effect. The joke can be presented in another way. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-07-13 14:32 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <87k2gs8bak.fsf@lifelogs.com> 2016-07-12 5:10 ` instead of gnus-cloud.el Richard Stallman 2016-07-12 7:44 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 13:04 ` Richard Stallman 2016-07-13 13:52 ` Stefan Monnier 2016-07-12 13:44 ` Ted Zlatanov 2016-07-12 15:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2016-07-13 14:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 2016-07-13 13:06 ` Richard Stallman
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