From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Bringing GNU Emacs to Native Code" at the European Lisp Symposium Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:48 -0400 Message-ID: References: <69d8b48d-bd09-41c1-a89d-ed76fe0284a4@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="129941"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, Drew Adams , akrl@sdf.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 30 05:01:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTzSR-000XhI-6s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:01:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47322 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTzSQ-0001Lo-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:01:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43352) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTzRc-0000pT-HY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:01:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTzRZ-0005Fs-PX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:38399) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTzRZ-0005Ax-9Q; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:57 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 339B84506FB; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BBA3A4506F3; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:49 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1588215649; bh=CQgLdtsYZWM0MxfEQX0yVJ+wD61JIiXUdDBisDLVVws=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=cJtmOIqYleYyhQE5+WGpevZpg3+5z7dd6V1GfaNGZAkZTRNhzHDPsL2tV9Ejf/U2u muUYfRArhxMrWvQGxAiKq7qk33kkExm3TC4UmvPD4vsdalZ86mVUAcvyqsfZqfqB9I UsgK2ZQGmNlZWUzM86FWdV80ON5Kss9kH1Bv0RAvrUQ+hPQUsTWDQsFSuUz9OqaX6O FvV9KdiKCE/HTWdJv5DRqaaTRyuJ1N71orZPbmB6slPJ7pVp5e7lZsxUsJJKLG6MOj nOV5pwyxx0Yu/jFUrzFDophuE29kiTjO4gik4KRcUqQUGANBQKnfo18e0f0Z2ThPyD +IwrpwOVvFwfQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65EA11203CF; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:00:49 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:27:01 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/29 21:08:16 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 132.204.25.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248209 Archived-At: > > "The proposed compiler focuses on generating > > code for the new lexically scoped dialect only, > > since the dynamic one is considered obsolete > > and close to deprecation." > We might someday decide to deprecate dynamic binding mode, but that > would be years away. Unless/until we do so, new features in Emacs > should support both. I don't see such a need, no. Old code should work as well as before, but I think it's perfectly OK to require using Elisp/l in order to make use of some new features. We already do that in various cases (e.g. `gv-ref`, `thunk.el`, `generator.el` and I'm sure there are others). I might argue that old code doesn't need to be compiled to native code since it ran fast enough with the byte-code. That doesn't mean we should discourage making the native code compiler work with old code, but just that it's secondary. Stefan