From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Byte-compilation warning in eldoc.el Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83k0zbq2sd.fsf@gnu.org> <874kqfg7ju.fsf@gmail.com> <87v9ive69l.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8085"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?windows-1252?B?Sm/jbyBU4XZvcmE=?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 10 23:29:55 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ju0ah-00021s-7x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 23:29:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37564 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ju0ag-000172-AD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ju0a6-0000Tp-Iy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:30542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ju0a3-0003IA-7C; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:17 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 43360815FC; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4B841809C8; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:11 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1594416551; bh=/9S0Yj6j6QRVziDkAwrDGurkFZeT4zZREM54lXWrHVg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=jkMBpqnqr3FJZSR2OF7o/ul1nfGCifDkrb4NhLosXBtDeV2xKsxvXoGH7mxV9bMXU spje9P3rS/BaRANxfQCo6LMBU0qTqE/HBr26ULZw/aVkGcC/vtL1oZsVJOaOYLHOXl 3qjr7gtp2ZMqY1giKb6c08DBWVRMi388yy7mKEv4wDLvslIT/a7CYt7uQfHvqp+n87 rFHxU25z4tDIKGt8PXYYra0vZtCS+6nuxxGrm/Ti8Y2pdYdZZboWbPPfR61cdxYn5Y fi4OAhFaTzfNqTh+ye9AQyOaul5ln4J/gEcWtD/cQhpgy7fiDlDGLkZPFl0ZZzva9h 3fo/Wfg8Yinwg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [157.52.23.7]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04A33120805; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:29:10 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87v9ive69l.fsf@gmail.com> (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Jo=E3o_T=E1vo?= =?windows-1252?Q?ra=22's?= message of "Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:31:18 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/10 17:29:13 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252841 Archived-At: >>> Thanks, fixed. But curiously it doesn't. You can call it (and I always >>> do call it) with one argument, as one does in CL. >> Technically, you can call it with one argument. >> But in 99% of the cases it's a really bad idea. > What's the difference to `intern'? or `intern-soft'? Interning a new symbol doesn't affect existing ones, and interning an old symbol doesn't do anything, so those two are perfectly harmless. `unintern` on the other hand can render your Emacs session inoperable. >>> By the way, the only reason I had to do this (I rarely use this outside >>> interactive contexts) >> Exactly: it might make sense occasionally while debugging, but is >> usually an error in code. > Not arguing but, like Drew, I wonder why. FWIW in Common Lisp, intern, > unintern, find-symbol, etc all assume the "current package" as the thing > to operate on. Same here. `unintern` on the global obarray is really dangerous and very rarely needed. Most cases I've found were misuses better served by something different (e.g. `makunbound`). > 1. when you `package-install` the new eldoc 1.2.0 package in Emacs 26.3 > for the first time, it just compiles it, it doesn't load it. We had > witnessed this with Flymake too, remember? `package-install` is not supposed to "load" the package (it installs it, activates it, and compiles it). But yes, it is also supposed to *reload* already loaded files (right before compiling), so it looks like there might be a bug somewhere. You might want to trace through `package--load-files-for-activation` to see why eldoc.el is not reloaded even though it should be in `load-history`. > 2. When you shut down that Emacs session, start it again, run > package-initialize, you _still_ don't have the new eldoc.el file > (1.2.0) loaded. This is only for eldoc.el, flymake.el works > correctly in this use case. Yes, this is because it's preloaded in Emacs, so when package.el comes to activate the package, the autoloads in `eldoc-autoloads.el` won't have any effect because all its functions are already defined (since `eldoc.el` is already loaded). This is not a really bug in package.el but arguably a missing feature, indeed. When `package-activate-all` is called, it should probably reload all packages that were already loaded before (when the version already loaded is different from the one that's just been activated). Stefan