From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:51 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87eemuanct.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200924013655.asv2tem25cbwv5et@Ergus> <2ACED303-9A2C-4363-BE56-2E9AF0B8DC85@posteo.net> <20200925002239.fgg3vw2nylltcoyp@Ergus> <219042AC-556D-48CC-8920-82D9BF2BD3AA@aol.com> <3A81FB67-A558-4281-8285-CDD9B01033E3@posteo.net> <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> <15F9616E-CA9D-40C0-876E-326B9B539225@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3097"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Ergus , Fermin , Jean Louis , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel To: Qiantan Hong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 29 18:31:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNIXF-0000iy-Gx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 18:31:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47236 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNIXE-00034B-Hw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:31:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60682) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNIVq-0002YK-0G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:32138) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNIVn-0003gG-QC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:57 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4A01B80581; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A23B780C2B; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:52 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1601396992; bh=zAHZ6OQfAWyQW/jGNx9oEqO8ds/ftOOYH/M/aXbF8bM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=EEuns4GW3PnIyke5gCd9BXKsaRHVJVME1JHuAnRsPoC1Ssj6WlZMn4gk7EluSG+y3 2mxdnLbRCwlxiFxX7hVCgYLDEeYj2VUnjxLF9zd1jF9vaSppe6G8S1cevab7M3KT3/ 3OrIWLsjRVrNJOQ0i1BnVR3S6mqr8RSCjqHaXl5NOLYslrwXHsx3dEGk+33ENMN+lP IjnT5VJbh19gspAokEI3Z+x/kr/qukbAairYICYq5n7eNKTa0afn/J7ag8BxYm07/4 7oU9/MMlYHN0Mwf9GcD/xS7sm4pgMBFte7F1L86+iakTCP6hOdolXKrA+IDE/UmGvA 7JciCLEX9I0xg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D1A5D1203C5; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:29:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <15F9616E-CA9D-40C0-876E-326B9B539225@mit.edu> (Qiantan Hong's message of "Tue, 29 Sep 2020 15:58:10 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/29 09:11:54 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256720 Archived-At: >> 1) On one hand such services require some servers (to work like google >> spreadsheet) and need to be provided somehow... something difficult as I >> don't think gnu or fsf have resources to maintain a service like that >> and provide it. > CRDT should do it. I think CRDT make no difference to the problem referred to here, which is that two machines, each behind its own firewall will have difficulty talking to each other unless they go through some external server (at least to set up the initial connection). There are *partial* solutions in the form of ICE/STUN. Stefan