From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi at startup Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:12:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1308671519 6519 80.91.229.12 (21 Jun 2011 15:51:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:51:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Kenichi Handa To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 21 17:51:53 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ3F3-0004Li-Cq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 17:51:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54768 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ3F2-0002dr-HJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:51:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44790) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ2ct-0000fv-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:12:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ2cq-0003bC-W8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:12:26 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:11027 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ2cn-0003aJ-S6; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:12:21 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAH+0AE5FxL0s/2dsb2JhbABUpnB4iHPAA4YqBJ1khCQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,401,1304308800"; d="scan'208";a="116778058" Original-Received: from 69-196-189-44.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.189.44]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 21 Jun 2011 11:12:18 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5577F660F1; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:12:12 -0300 (ART) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Jun 2011 06:30:05 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:140782 Archived-At: >> > Yes, of course. But when bidi-display-reordering is turned on by >> > default, bidi_init will _always_ load these 2 files at startup, >> > whenever it needs to display the first thing on the Emacs frame (mode >> > line or menu/tool bar, I think). AFAIK, it has been our policy since >> > before I remember to preload every Lisp file that is always loaded at >> > startup. Yes, if the file is needed when you just run "emacs" with an empty .emacs file, then it definitely should be preloaded. >> Is it used when we run emacs with -batch? That doesn't matter for preloading. > I think in -batch mode Emacs should not reorder bidirectional text. > Mainly because if the underlying terminal is bidi-aware, it will > reorder it by itself, and if it isn't aware, most probably it doesn't > support the corresponding scripts anyway, and scripts that need > reordering will come out garbled. > So I think bidi-display-reordering should be set early during startup, > but only in interactive sessions, i.e. dynamically. As mentioned a few days ago in another thread, thinking in terms of "interactive/noninteractive" session is the wrong way to look at it. Instead, you want to think about which terminal is used. E.g. think of the case of an Emacs server that did not daemonize: some terminals will be GUIs, others will be ttys, and there'll be one more which is just stdin/stdout. IIUC you're saying that the special initial terminal (bound to stdin/stdout) should not do bib-processing, which sounds fine. Stefan