From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:51:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <874ko8wu8k.fsf@blind.guru> <83eencmj3l.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31544"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, Mario Lang , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 08 16:52:06 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFeyb-00084u-Ch for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 16:52:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58528 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFeya-0006EC-FS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:52:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45220) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFext-0005MT-G3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:51:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:47370) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFexr-000248-68; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:51:20 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 68E1080DC9; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A992F80723; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:51:15 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1599576675; bh=NFV9I50dufTimiA9QZpoU2P/7VmioK36qoy98gAgiBY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=gPzb2V7OOHR7VJbfnRk5F1Ucua5skqPi6b7/n7Nv+/PSHpKkbq7R1McL/UOhT8hKO F8IRa9PoKToL5DGukse1DQl4Cc+QHXj3iYbdxSRbXywL57vFYXxeEGKY4I5FsjmTHq myjayKKvsEDEgzRFOFMclwHdbOdDdIuDt/1vFtta3YKfF6JJwTndH8jBIMnFaAadVi 68u8+km9dREelB+0ACXr5Yyf9eLKvOfgyUQeiBM3BcnTwRvMVBWawtLyeuuvdWputN Z5Sy6JizOEZ+FblHy28aBYenbgonSSyViRQUG7McoqEyHyeG3kRCr163y4kEGFxKA5 xzVYRufYlr49Q== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A7431202F4; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:51:15 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83eencmj3l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 08 Sep 2020 17:35:58 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/08 09:12:57 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254740 Archived-At: > So either (1) we go for the lowest common denominator of features that > most people agree to (which can easily be an empty set); That's what we've been doing so far. I think we should keep doing it, of course, because it's pretty much the only choice for the "default defaults". Beside this, we could create a kind of hierarchical configuration system, where the hierarchy is not (like is the case in Custom) based only on functionality, but rather on "popularity/importance/frequency". We already have a bit of that with the few options which are placed directly in the `Options` menu. We could offer a menu entry "Settings" which shows the "most commonly" requested settings (in a buffer rather than in a submenu). Not sure if we'd need "advanced settings" as an intermediate point before getting to the "exhaustive" list of settings available currently via Customize. > or (2) we come up with groups of optional features which are turned on > and off together. These sound like Custom themes. Currently we only use them for aesthetics (faces, basically), but we should probably try to develop them further to cover similar needs to the ones satisfied by Doom/Spacemacs/StarterKit/... > It isn't easy, but unless someone picks up the gauntlet, we will never > move in that direction. Agreed. Maybe we should start small and try to create a few simple custom-themes like `emacs24`, `emacs19`, `dark-background`, `Vim`, ... And ideally someone should try and see what breaks down when we try and create a theme that mimicks Prelude or Starter Kit, and then work towards lifting those restrictions. Stefan