BZR error!

BZR error!

[Angelo Graziosi]

This morning 'bzr up' fails:

$ bzr up
bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request (403 
Forbidden) for http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format

Up to a few hours ago (this night, rev. 99249) it worked just fine (I 
use it since 20091228).

Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: BZR error!

[Tassilo Horn]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

Hi Angelo,

> $ bzr up
> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request (403
> Forbidden) for http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
> Up to a few hours ago (this night, rev. 99249) it worked just fine (I
> use it since 20091228).

Hm, I did a "bzr pull" right now, and it worked fine, although it
downloaded more than 150MB!!!

BTW, what's the difference between pull and update?  Is "bzr update" a
pull without commit followed by a merge with local modifications, and
"bzr pull" a pull with direct commit?

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 13:30, Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote:

> Hm, I did a "bzr pull" right now, and it worked fine, although it
> downloaded more than 150MB!!!

Likely you're using the sftp transport, while Angelo is using http.
Perhaps the 150 MB choke the http transport.

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Óscar Fuentes]

Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:

>> Hm, I did a "bzr pull" right now, and it worked fine, although it
>> downloaded more than 150MB!!!
>
> Likely you're using the sftp transport, while Angelo is using http.
> Perhaps the 150 MB choke the http transport.

I don't think so. The error message appears after less than 2 seconds
for me.

-- 
Óscar

Re: BZR error!

[Tassilo Horn]

Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Juanma,

>> Hm, I did a "bzr pull" right now, and it worked fine, although it
>> downloaded more than 150MB!!!
>
> Likely you're using the sftp transport,

Right.

> while Angelo is using http.  Perhaps the 150 MB choke the http
> transport.

That would be a bug or savannah config problem, right?

Anyway, I still don't get where those 150MB come from.  Checking
.bzr/repositories/packs, the only one with a modification time from
today has only 27 MB.  The indices in .bzr/repositories/packs that were
modified with the last pull sum up to only about 300KB.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: BZR error!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org>
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:30:08 +0100
> 
> Anyway, I still don't get where those 150MB come from.

As I wrote earlier today in another thread, the branches on the trunk
were reorganized, I don't know by whom and why.  Perhaps this is the
reason for the humongous data size bzr needed to fetch.  But that's
just a guess.

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> As I wrote earlier today in another thread, the branches on the trunk
> were reorganized, I don't know by whom and why.  Perhaps this is the
> reason for the humongous data size bzr needed to fetch.  But that's
> just a guess.

The branches are all sharing the same repository, so it does not matter
where they are located or how they are named.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Anyway, I still don't get where those 150MB come from.

> As I wrote earlier today in another thread, the branches on the trunk
> were reorganized, I don't know by whom and why.  Perhaps this is the
> reason for the humongous data size bzr needed to fetch.  But that's
> just a guess.

The reorganization is unrelated.  The 150MB is a side-effect of some
"minor" commits I made yesterday which don't even change any file.
I wouldn't have made those commits if I had known,


        Stefan

Re: BZR error!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:39:40 -0500
> 
> The 150MB is a side-effect of some "minor" commits I made yesterday
> which don't even change any file.  I wouldn't have made those
> commits if I had known,

How about telling more about those troublesome commits, so we all
could avoid that in the future?

Re: BZR error!

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> The 150MB is a side-effect of some "minor" commits I made yesterday
>> which don't even change any file.  I wouldn't have made those
>> commits if I had known,
>
> How about telling more about those troublesome commits, so we all
> could avoid that in the future?

Furthermore, the bazaar developers could be informed about that
circumstance. It looks like something that requires a fix.

-- 
Óscar

Re: BZR error!

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> The 150MB is a side-effect of some "minor" commits I made yesterday
>>> which don't even change any file.  I wouldn't have made those
>>> commits if I had known,
>> How about telling more about those troublesome commits, so we all
>> could avoid that in the future?

I installed a change that "merges" some old branch (already merged,
really).  I.e. it only updates the merge meta-data.  But when you update
it ends up loading a whole bunch of large files to finally decide that
there's nothing to do.

> Furthermore, the bazaar developers could be informed about that
> circumstance.  It looks like something that requires a fix.

I'm sure they're not interested: if you use the bzr+ssh access method
rather than sftp, it downloads less than a megabyte.


        Stefan

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> I'm sure they're not interested: if you use the bzr+ssh access method
> rather than sftp, it downloads less than a megabyte.

The bzr+ssh method would have downloaded about the same amount.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I'm sure they're not interested: if you use the bzr+ssh access method
>> rather than sftp, it downloads less than a megabyte.
> The bzr+ssh method would have downloaded about the same amount.

Hmm... it didn't for me (I use many machines, so I update my trunk
mirror via sftp and then the other mirrors from that one mirror via
bzr+ssh).
But of course, maybe something else I did earlier in those repositories
already downloaded the relevant data.


        Stefan

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> But of course, maybe something else I did earlier in those repositories
> already downloaded the relevant data.

One of your merge commit merged the history of rmail-mbox-branch (225
revisions).  Since you did the merge you already had it locally, but
someone who didn't branch it previously needs to download it together
with this merge commit.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Óscar Fuentes]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> But of course, maybe something else I did earlier in those repositories
>> already downloaded the relevant data.
>
> One of your merge commit merged the history of rmail-mbox-branch (225
> revisions).  Since you did the merge you already had it locally, but
> someone who didn't branch it previously needs to download it together
> with this merge commit.

I doubt that the 225 revisions of rmail-mbox-branch plus the other
revisions merged into trunk require a 177 MB download from a smart
server. It would look like a very dumb server.

-- 
Óscar

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

> This morning 'bzr up' fails:
>
> $ bzr up
> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
> (403 Forbidden) for
> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format

May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 04/01/2010 15.32, Andreas Schwab ha scritto:
> Angelo Graziosi<angelo.graziosi@alice.it>  writes:
>
>> This morning 'bzr up' fails:
>>
>> $ bzr up
>> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
>> (403 Forbidden) for
>> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
> May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
> you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.

This means I have to re-download the full trunk? and how?

Angelo

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

> This means I have to re-download the full trunk?

No, just edit branch.conf and change trunk to emacs-23 in the
parent_location.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 04/01/2010 15.49, Andreas Schwab ha scritto:
> Angelo Graziosi<angelo.graziosi@alice.it>  writes:
>
>> This means I have to re-download the full trunk?
>
> No, just edit branch.conf and change trunk to emacs-23 in the
> parent_location.

WHAT???

Sorry I do not know anything of branch.conf. I want, if possible, only 
to download development source, build, test and report if I find 
problems. With CVS this was simple:

cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/sources/emacs co -P emacs

and

cd emacs
cvs up -dP

Now it is much complicated!

Since this morning the following do not work any more and produce same 
errors:

$ bzr branch --stacked http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk
bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request (403 
Forbidden) for http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format

$ bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk 
emacs-trunk
bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request (403 
Forbidden) for http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format

YOU need to say people how to get in simple way Emacs dev. source, not 
how to complicate their life. I need source only to build etc. not to 
became e developer!

At least your wiki page should be rewritten!

Perhaps you should set up an rsync so that who needs only source have a 
simple way to obtain it (TeXLive peolpe have, for example).


Thanks,
Angelo.


PS - What have we gained migrating from CVS to BAZAAR? Why not SVN, 
which is simpler than BAZAAR?

Re: BZR error!

[Tassilo Horn]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

>>> This means I have to re-download the full trunk?
>>
>> No, just edit branch.conf and change trunk to emacs-23 in the
>> parent_location.
>
> WHAT???

Just edit that file in the .bzr/branch/ subdirectory.

> Sorry I do not know anything of branch.conf.  I want, if possible,
> only to download development source, build, test and report if I find
> problems. With CVS this was simple:
>
> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/sources/emacs co -P emacs
>
> and
>
> cd emacs
> cvs up -dP

Hm, maybe making nightly snapshots available would be good.

> PS - What have we gained migrating from CVS to BAZAAR?  Why not SVN,
> which is simpler than BAZAAR?

Because SVN uses a central repository just like CVS does, and we wanted
to have a decentralized version control system, which are a bit more
complicated by their nature.  Anyway, the usage for users who just want
to have the bleeding edge version should be and is simple: bzr pull.
That this doesn't work currently seems to be a bug in the setup, which
will be fixed ASAP, I guess.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: BZR error!

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> PS - What have we gained migrating from CVS to BAZAAR?  Why not
>> SVN, which is simpler than BAZAAR?
>
> Because SVN uses a central repository just like CVS does, and we
> wanted to have a decentralized version control system, which are a
> bit more complicated by their nature.

The question is rather, from a practical point of view: Why have
migrated to Bazaar and not to git?  Up to now, the whole issue is just
a political decision (which I really, really don't like) with ENDLESS
pain.


    Werner

Re: BZR error!

[Miles Bader]

Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> writes:
> The question is rather, from a practical point of view: Why have
> migrated to Bazaar and not to git?  Up to now, the whole issue is just
> a political decision (which I really, really don't like) with ENDLESS
> pain.

Yes

-Miles

-- 
Yo mama's so fat when she gets on an elevator it HAS to go down.

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 16:33, Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> wrote:

> The question is rather, from a practical point of view: Why have
> migrated to Bazaar and not to git?  Up to now, the whole issue is just
> a political decision (which I really, really don't like) with ENDLESS
> pain.

Endless pain? Most of the "pain" is apparently because of complexity,
and a cursory look at git's documentation shows that git is not the
cure for complexity, not by a long shot. I happen to like git, BTW, so
no need to try to convince me that it is good; but the sheer number of
options in each command just looks like a joke.

For me, the main pain right now, other than trying to decide the
appropriate workflows (which would happen with any dVCS), is slowness
accessing the repository; but that's not a flaw of Bazaar. Once the
Savannah admins switch us over to bzr+ssh, speed of access should stop
being a concern.

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Werner LEMBERG]

> For me, the main pain right now, other than trying to decide the
> appropriate workflows (which would happen with any dVCS), is
> slowness accessing the repository; but that's not a flaw of Bazaar.

I'm not so sure about this...

> Once the Savannah admins switch us over to bzr+ssh, speed of access
> should stop being a concern.

It's a mystery to me why this hasn't been done from day one of Bazaar
support on Savannah.


    Werner

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 16:56, Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> wrote:

> I'm not so sure about this...

Not so sure about what? That it is not a flaw of Bazaar? Perhaps it
could use sftp more efficiently, but I doubt that git over sftp would
be much better.

> It's a mystery to me why this hasn't been done from day one of Bazaar
> support on Savannah.

https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?107143
https://savannah.gnu.org/support/?107077

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Miles Bader]

Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:
> Endless pain? Most of the "pain" is apparently because of complexity,
> and a cursory look at git's documentation shows that git is not the
> cure for complexity, not by a long shot. I happen to like git, BTW, so
> no need to try to convince me that it is good; but the sheer number of
> options in each command just looks like a joke.

Er, options are _optional_.  Most people don't use most of them...

-Miles

-- 
Christian, n. One who follows the teachings of Christ so long as they are not
inconsistent with a life of sin.

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 17:05, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:

> Er, options are _optional_.  Most people don't use most of them...

Well, they still cause a cognitive load when you try to read the
manpages (I shudder every time I do "git help diff").

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Richard Stallman]

GNU is not just a label.  It is a large software project composed of
many parts.  So GNU packages have to support each other.

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 16:05, Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:

> With
> CVS this was simple:
>
> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/sources/emacs co -P emacs
>
> and
>
> cd emacs
> cvs up -dP
>
> Now it is much complicated!

  bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs

and

  cd emacs
  bzr pull

does not seem "much more complicated". That it works right now or not
is unrelated, and just transitory (apparently it works now if you use
http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/emacs-23).

> $ bzr branch --stacked http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk

Why do you use --stacked?

> $ bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk

Why do you use --lightweight?

> YOU need to say people how to get in simple way Emacs dev. source, not how
> to complicate their life. I need source only to build etc. not to became e
> developer!
>
> At least your wiki page should be rewritten!

My, you have a nice way to ask for help.

> PS - What have we gained migrating from CVS to BAZAAR? Why not SVN, which is
> simpler than BAZAAR?

Define "we". Developers have gained the possibility of having all the
tools of a VCS for their local developments. Search google for the
differences between centralized and distributed VCS.

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 04/01/2010 16.27, Juanma Barranquero ha scritto:
>
>    bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs
>
> and
>
>    cd emacs
>    bzr pull
>
> does not seem "much more complicated". That it works right now or not
> is unrelated, and just transitory (apparently it works now if you use
> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/emacs-23).

Indeed, I used them! Only that now they do not work any more. If it is 
transitory, I can wait: I have just flagged the problem.

>
>> $ bzr branch --stacked http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk
>
> Why do you use --stacked?
>
>> $ bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
>
> Why do you use --lightweight?

Adding '--stacked' or '--lightweight', the tree I obtain has a size of 
110M, as with CVS. Without them it is almost 200M: it add something that 
to the end of build it is not useful.

> Define "we".

Oops, 'you developers'! Sorry!


For the sake of completeness, this work:

$ bzr checkout --lightweight 
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk

cd emacs-trunk
bzr up


Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: BZR error!

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 16:48, Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> wrote:

> Indeed, I used them! Only that now they do not work any more.

So, when thinks stop working, it's not that they fail, is that they
suddenly turn from "easy" to "complex". Curious.

>> Define "we".
>
> Oops, 'you developers'! Sorry!

Nice again.

> For the sake of completeness, this work:
>
> $ bzr checkout --lightweight
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk
>
> cd emacs-trunk
> bzr up

I think this is a mirror of the Emacs trunk.

    Juanma

Re: BZR error!

[Óscar Fuentes]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

[snip]

> $ bzr branch --stacked http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk emacs-trunk
> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
> (403 Forbidden) for
> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
> $ bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
> emacs-trunk
> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
> (403 Forbidden) for
> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
> YOU need to say people how to get in simple way Emacs dev. source, not
> how to complicate their life. I need source only to build etc. not to
> became e developer!

You could start by following the repeated advice here about not using
--lightweight checkouts of the upstream branch. That extends to
--stacked branches too.

It was said here that the disk space you save with --lightweight has the
cost of long and slow operations across the 'net and loss of
independence. Now you are experiencing that effect.

[snip]

-- 
Óscar

Re: BZR error!

[Richard Stallman]

    > This means I have to re-download the full trunk?

    No, just edit branch.conf and change trunk to emacs-23 in the
    parent_location.

When was this change made?  I pulled in the repository on Jan 2 23:58
EST.

Re: BZR error!

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:31:40 -0500
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, angelo.graziosi@alice.it
> 
>     > This means I have to re-download the full trunk?
> 
>     No, just edit branch.conf and change trunk to emacs-23 in the
>     parent_location.
> 
> When was this change made?  I pulled in the repository on Jan 2 23:58
> EST.

Are you using the http method or the sftp method?  The problem
discussed here is only relevant to the former, not to the latter.

Re: BZR error!

[Sven Joachim]

On 2010-01-04 15:32 +0100, Andreas Schwab wrote:

> Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:
>
>> This morning 'bzr up' fails:
>>
>> $ bzr up
>> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
>> (403 Forbidden) for
>> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
> May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
> you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.

Thanks, that worked.  But it downloaded 180 Megabyte of data for only
eight changed files.

Sven

Re: BZR error!

[Stefan Monnier]

>> This morning 'bzr up' fails:
>> $ bzr up
>> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
>> (403 Forbidden) for
>> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
> May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
> you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.

Can someone confirm that this is the culprit?
That'd be kind of annoying, but the use of symlinks is not crucial, so
if that's the problem, we can revert to the previous setup.


        Stefan

Re: BZR error!

[Andreas Schwab]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> This morning 'bzr up' fails:
>>> $ bzr up
>>> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
>>> (403 Forbidden) for
>>> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>> May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
>> you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.
>
> Can someone confirm that this is the culprit?

It's common that http servers ignore symlinks for security reasons.
It's not even listed in <http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs>.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: BZR error!

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> May be related to the fact that trunk is a symlink now.  As a workaround
>>> you can use the emacs-23 branch instead.
>> Can someone confirm that this is the culprit?
> It's common that http servers ignore symlinks for security reasons.
> It's not even listed in <http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs>.

OK, I reverted this change, so there's no more `emacs-23' branch and
trunk is not a symlink any more.


        Stefan

Re: BZR error!

[Tom Tromey]

>>>>> "Angelo" == Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

Angelo> $ bzr up
Angelo> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
Angelo> (403 Forbidden) for
Angelo> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format

I get this same error when following the "Initializing Your Local Bazaar
Repository" directions on the wiki.

Tom

Re: BZR error!

[Karl Fogel]

Tom Tromey <tromey@redhat.com> writes:
>>>>>> "Angelo" == Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:
>
>Angelo> $ bzr up
>Angelo> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request
>Angelo> (403 Forbidden) for
>Angelo> http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format
>
>I get this same error when following the "Initializing Your Local Bazaar
>Repository" directions on the wiki.

Do you get it repeatedly?  (I.e., are you unable to get the sources?)

Re: BZR error!

[Tom Tromey]

Karl> Do you get it repeatedly?  (I.e., are you unable to get the sources?)

I haven't tried again.
I used Andreas' advice and checked out the emacs-23 branch.
I guess at some point I will try editing the bzr metadata to see if I
can update from trunk without going through the checkout again.

Tom

Re: BZR error!

[Angelo Graziosi]

Juanma Barranquero wrote:
> Likely you're using the sftp transport, while Angelo is using http.
> Perhaps the 150 MB choke the http transport.

The first time (a few days ago), I did

bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk 
emacs-trunk

and than, always:

cd emacs-trunk
bzr up

It worked just fine (I did several builds) up to this morning. The trunk 
size is

$ du -s emacs-trunk
110M

which is the same I got with 'cvs up...'

Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: BZR error!

[Christian Lynbech]

>>>>> "Angelo" == Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:

Angelo> bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk

This does not work for me now:

    $ bzr checkout --lightweight http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
    bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fulfill the request (403 Forbidden) for http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/branch-format 

Moreover, the instructions on 

    https://savannah.gnu.org/bzr/?group=emacs

are also not currently working:

    $ bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs
    bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/.bzr/branch/".

Using the following url (as suggested by others) does currently work:

    http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/emacs-23


------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Lynbech       | christian #\@ defun #\. dk
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
                                        - petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)