From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changing line widths in the Emacs source code Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87tuw1x016.fsf@gnus.org> <20200913142210.GA4285@ACM> <87d02pmsi7.fsf@t510.orion.oneofus.la> <87o8m9sadk.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <87k0wxjl6j.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32740"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?windows-1252?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 04:24:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeA5-0008Qt-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:24:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47466 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeA4-0001hV-B5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34282) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHe9a-0001HX-LO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:59189) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHe9Y-0002V4-DO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:37 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 072A74410C9; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4B4DB4410AD; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:33 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1600050213; bh=Xf4x2FiBZd7gwMlMas+/TSk+c+lDTi/tG3Jy2KiUjvc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Q6ByPGlP93hWV51tNsb7MIMczsuPjqq5naBNWf0yqDwg/SkpTJeQnkNKiNK0ZpoB3 k7If+5oYT0Dz7VJ3ZXDOPIbONQUm3NSmOaEK/v05AfQfFfSokPafWtQ28K1TwBm0Z8 HFV9j9UK2SpP+PbSUAPkfRFQurxt/meUvv2BxMXCo3XtNOUMnDGSFfxSpPoRvLxvUz bSgHS5ZcUYsGZQFmlgRLNxFKTTRmEv01zHvVZvUz2GqPP4/j9pERbLNPeHGzYVTzi2 8EEksTl5FzyvkL1Zabb2Ti8gHk62DdMN6DA7kpZmAx8h0Lxf/0rZjl4pTebg8lzTXa HLHrPmJl2gW5A== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1942F1203FD; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87k0wxjl6j.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?windows-1252?Q?=22=D3scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Mon, 14 Sep 2020 01:45:08 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/13 22:23:35 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255593 Archived-At: > Keeping track of indentation level adds to cognitive load, so we can't > dismiss leading unused columns as irrelevant. I don't think we was saying they're irrelevant. But just that the 55-60 "optimum" has to do with the difficulty for your visual system to jump from the end of one line to the beginning of the next and that it was in a context of "plain text", so it doesn't necessarily carry over to code because of the indentation. The indentation could both help (in the sense that a text indented by 40 columns should be able to use a fill-column of about 95-100 and result in an "optimal" legibility) and hinder (in the sense that it might be harder for the visual system to find the beginning of the line when every line starts at a different indentation level, tho I don't know if that's the case, nor even if it has been studied). In any case, my experience is that regardless of issues of legibility it is usually easy to make code fit within 80 columns so I don't see a strong reason to increase that number (given that such an increase would likely result in a decrease of visual code density, i.e. less efficient use of screen real estate, and may encourage nesting code more deeply which would be detrimental to the readability of the code). I don't think there's anything magical about 80, but experience just seems to show that it works well. Stefan