From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master baf1a7a4a0: Turn gv-synthetic-place into a function Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <835yhkzmn8.fsf@gnu.org> <878rmfx51p.fsf@web.de> <831qs7zj9e.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8piec78.fsf@web.de> <834jx2xphy.fsf@gnu.org> <878rmenmd4.fsf@web.de> <87sfklgmba.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87edw4bzrp.fsf@web.de> <83y1ucu4k9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25560"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 21 18:17:26 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2Pc-0006Ng-U4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 18:17:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52196 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2Pb-0000xI-QT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:17:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45722) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2Me-0005MA-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:37653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2MY-0001Se-1p; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:18 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C62A6440C74; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5EC5A440C33; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:10 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1663776850; bh=TrT8lqaLpgooYp/OClf9sD2a35HbfKi7wb630iuiXM0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=gBAD/4k1eqfx2/xmCaBwYjKofgmZ/cQ3j2tKXyQDCxO/j5E/DJxktdKk7p7Rxb4mb If/LN9qjZUZYvaXwdySMzb5t/LJwM052H8u486vrkUtdU5uxM1OYVurNrmsV9Q/NN+ 6xWJMxlCMil6XCIJUu3F6ujO0FII6pjptQod35rLngf2RL9h9JfUAEXf27jA1kjfed w9/8OR6UgLk2zwShvONri+HmMKfUqpxQLHAnCrUOslmAuu3UrgYa8y7nCviEDq6vhl DUFZq2pTWg+pn3G0VkhX3YZtcIV5BZMSqkqQPztbSe/ECvK5GTvn1k63BKEUkoHPLu vKBDm/ZeNR3OA== Original-Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2148E1208C2; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:14:10 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83y1ucu4k9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 21 Sep 2022 18:31:50 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295929 Archived-At: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:20:24 -0400 >> >> While `gv-` is a handy short prefix, maybe we should stop using terms >> like "place" and "generalized variables" and call them "lvalues" like >> the rest of the world. > > Would people without background in language parsing understand the > terminology? If not, lvalue is not better than what we already use. It has some advantages, tho: - I think the vast majority of those who are familiar with generalized variables know the "lvalue" term as well, so there is not much loss. - A non-negligible number of people who don't know "place" or "generalized variables" have heard to word "lvalue" in one course or another. - "lvalue" is known to Wikipedia, contrary to "generalized variables". - "lvalue" is shorter than "generalized variables". - "lvalue" is obviously a special term with a technical meaning, contrary to "place". The downside I can see (beside the obvious churn) is that the explanation of lvalue in Wikipedia might prove more confusing than helful. Stefan