From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What are invisible frames for? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87v98eo264.fsf@md5i.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31488"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Welsh Duggan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 22 16:09:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lZa0t-0007re-K2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:09:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60906 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZa0s-00024H-NB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:09:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48556) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZa0K-0001Yz-Bw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:44220) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZa0I-0004v3-DJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:27 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3019D44040F; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D97D1440311; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:23 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1619100503; bh=o7QZV+XGJOFCPiWkXnR7eDCsydG2yWUnpjCE2TcHSvs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ncLC0FxjbaWnxxdhwaKon15fQf67PRnU1Dl82G54pCWO2/7fL4f40BysBvGVENALy S+P+wsN52ITiIhDgqa0RCNFbJQF4Hx1TNTx1BhnjHeriz1XwDvy5tH5dmI+KVirbqX 18XU4h617CEgd1l5+hp+3aYaBY+AaKmwp5MCuZIQJaCuuzXVDiH2axW3kVe31pX8m+ DoURybcsnExTS7QV9jumnKvnbGisVRVzeJMdBul+kEEwzm607drFut1dJotp8Oi2Jm lBTVt+LChE8/yIA4bRknCpy9Q3O0XjAR8YXeSvBmLyOsEG7Zbn5tVBHflSGFlLMpGs nbawFRTyPHzaQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A83EB1201BB; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:08:23 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87v98eo264.fsf@md5i.com> (Michael Welsh Duggan's message of "Thu, 22 Apr 2021 09:54:11 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268278 Archived-At: > I know that "emacs --daemon" creates a frame that isn't displayed. I > don't know if that frame is an "invisible frame" by this definition, but > I thought I'd mention it, just in case. No, that frame is yet different: it's "visible" but it's in a "dummy terminal" not connected to any GUI and not even a tty (it's initially connected to the stdin/stdout, tho, so `message` gets output to stdout, for example. It's the same dummy terminal that's used when Emacs runs in batch mode). BTW there are yet more forms of "invisible" frames: those frames that are displayed on terminals that the user cannot currently see (e.g. connected to a $DISPLAY that's in a different physical location). This is relevant in the sense that when a minibuffer is on a frame that's connected to display to which the user doesn't currently have access, it can make Emacs unusable. For this reason, `server.el` calls `top-level` sometimes. Stefan