From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: persistent data feature Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:44 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcil2sj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czm98qi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o85tcwm0.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874k7ljwkr.fsf@gnus.org> <87fsr5cuzq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1aphuei.fsf@gnus.org> <837dcex6ub.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl1p10js.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl1olyhr.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12892"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Richard Stallman , eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar.mena@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, Pip Cet , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 11 14:55:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mw2qP-0003CK-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 14:55:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57164 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw2qN-0006Sh-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:55:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47316) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw2p2-00052p-Mt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:45225) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mw2ow-0000Da-7K; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:55 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5F01310028A; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:47 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id EF79D100124; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:45 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1639230825; bh=hZjIy0aclmcCgLijXIlPT8JrTGzKQs9Grp33y8oTP7Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=KY/0j7EcV3oR4UFAJXMIcOR9Sr2RcvvCBQc/GHSVfAYcHkaChppxtRDizGUqQY4rN n1EcMDrKLWECuBVAURMUL3wuXgsB1co6wDRYQsEHR90DhJNr9S4o2G9AEDU4aawISl CR96pMZNJP9umIomTXRdrnGA8hhZHQbS4wNDObdzJfd6sTdmpVJtc5VwquutxmrHDe P4o0uEFKq75Wz8Awk9SL04+CD9bHzOjZxJNTbPYt7KA1FpGUQ912f6yWPGxPkvgJyn nuoO3BSwJr8nH7cHOLIJXrFUVrvFAT+6jQQ9F/0LXH35Zpd3Mun60WexDuZUwZFmuT KHqOS7Z04tUyQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.30.173]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0A1E1207C1; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 08:53:45 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87bl1olyhr.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 11 Dec 2021 09:30:08 +0800") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281686 Archived-At: >>> There will, of course, be large amounts of data, and that will be slow. >>> (People already do this with a number things, and the results are >>> predictably sluggish.) >> >> To help me understand this discussion, I think it would help me to have >> examples of such large databases currently implemented as text files, >> along with an idea of what "large" means in this context (how many MBs) >> and where the "slow"ness manifests itself. > > I can think of two examples of large text databases: elfeed and recent > org-mode's caching (org-persist). I think I'm beginning to see a pattern: most of those uses (same for org-roam) are for cache-like data, i.e. data that can be recreated from other data. I suspect the same holds for gnus-registry, but doesn't for ecomplete. Cache-like data has the property that you don't need to version it, and users should never need to manipulate it directly: if there's a problem with it you should be able to just delete it and start over. For such cases, there's no great benefit to use a "transparent" text representation (but it's important to provide some way to rebuild the cache). Stefan