From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:03:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87bowa7dza.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <877h6y7chn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <831ux6cv5o.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3gpku3o.fsf@gnus.org> <834o1ypa2b.fsf@gnu.org> <87aabnn3mz.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83mxfnwwyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ipqbzogt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83liv7wqhe.fsf@gnu.org> <87liv75xsh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83k4arvx05.fsf@gnu.org> <87bow116je.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83wrepyq3r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sjpar2l2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83aabizh94.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcu6b4rp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312938214 7102 80.91.229.12 (10 Aug 2011 01:03:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:03:34 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 10 03:03:31 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QqxCk-0006y6-2X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 03:03:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48002 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqxCj-0006Bt-Lc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:03:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39688) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqxCc-00069D-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:03:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqxCX-0007Kz-UU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:03:22 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:32592 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqxCX-0007Jp-Ke for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 21:03:17 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoMGAPXXQU5FxKeo/2dsb2JhbABAmCePGHiBQAEBBAFWMws0EhQYDYgkuiiGRgSfXIQz X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,347,1309752000"; d="scan'208";a="130381614" Original-Received: from 69-196-167-168.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.167.168]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 09 Aug 2011 21:03:14 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5F2446610B; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:03:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87vcu6b4rp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:26:34 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143086 Archived-At: >> When you type "C-x C-s", Emacs clearly shows the characters that >> cannot be encoded as Latin-1. > As you said yourself, users should not need to know about the details of > how bidi works. So we can't assume that they know what left-to-right > marks are, so they can't know whether the characters that Emacs is > complaining about are important to keep. LRM marks aren't perfect, but I think that for Emacs-24.1, it'll have to be "the best we have", otherwise it would delay the release too much. Also, while I'm here. I re-suggest to change the default of bidi-paragraph-direction to left-to-right, since I think that preserves backward compatibility a lot better. We can set it to nil in the major modes where we know it can be useful, such as text-mode. Stefan