* Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation (was: bug#38713: 27.0.50; eww doesn't handle protocols other than https?) [not found] ` <83lfr1wxo6.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2019-12-25 0:36 ` Juri Linkov 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation Lars Ingebrigtsen 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2019-12-25 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: larsi, emacs-devel > Can you tell more about the plan? Web browsers support the officially registered URI scheme 'about' to reveal internal state and built-in functions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/About_URI_scheme There is one 'about' URI, namely 'about:protocols' already implemented in Emacs in lisp/url/url-about.el Then why not to support more 'about' URIs like: about:memory - with data returned from 'garbage-collect' about:processes about:timers about:buffers etc. If it's worth going that path, then would it be nice also to browse docstrings in eww as well with such URI as e.g. about:function/cdr There is one problem that some links might require executing Lisp code, e.g. to visit C source code. In this case where Web browsers execute JavaScript, use Emacs-specific EMACScript: <a href="emacscript:(find-function 'car)">Click to visit C source code</a> or <a href="#" onclick="(find-function-C-source 'car)">C source code</a> > For example, the following questions seem to be pertinent: > > . why implement this as part of eww? Emacs is not a browser, which > can only react to protocols, it has other ways of interaction Because eww provides basic capabilities present in web browsers such as rendering the standard HTML format and using hypertext links for navigation. OTOH, I think it would be useful only for browsing, not for interaction: it would not make sense to implement so-called "web apps" to be able to e.g. mark and delete buffers in the buffer list displayed in eww - this would be an inappropriate thing to do. > . where will all the HTML content come from? will it be taken from > the existing documentation or written from scratch? HTML content will be generated by functions like the existing 'url-about-protocols' in lisp/url/url-about.el. These functions might extract data from various data sources, including docstrings. > . eww is not very sophisticated browser, so are you sure displaying > HTML with it will be significantly better than "semi-obsolete" > Info? Many features of the Info browser are already supported in eww such as search and next/prev page navigation. But eww could be extended further with capabilities of the Info browser. > . more generally, what will be the advantages of providing > documentation this way, as opposed to the way we provide it now? Advantages: - consistent unified UI for browsing Emacs internals and documentation; - browser-like navigation using links where every resource is represented by standardized URI scheme; - navigation history shared between various resources including Help and Info; - easy bookmarking of every available resource; ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 0:36 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation (was: bug#38713: 27.0.50; eww doesn't handle protocols other than https?) Juri Linkov @ 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2019-12-25 21:59 ` Juri Linkov 2020-01-08 16:43 ` T.V Raman 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-12-25 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes: > Web browsers support the officially registered URI scheme 'about' > to reveal internal state and built-in functions: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/About_URI_scheme > > There is one 'about' URI, namely 'about:protocols' > already implemented in Emacs in lisp/url/url-about.el > Then why not to support more 'about' URIs like: > > about:memory - with data returned from 'garbage-collect' > about:processes > about:timers > about:buffers > etc. Web browsers support this sort of thing because that's a nice ad-hoc way to display data that you don't want to have in the menus. I don't see why Emacs should emulate that odd approach to hiding information, especially since Emacs already has commands to display all this data in a sensible manner. Like I said, `M-x list-timers' will always be better (for the users) than dumping some data into HTML and letting shr render it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-12-25 21:59 ` Juri Linkov 2020-01-08 16:43 ` T.V Raman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2019-12-25 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel >> Web browsers support the officially registered URI scheme 'about' >> to reveal internal state and built-in functions: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/About_URI_scheme >> >> There is one 'about' URI, namely 'about:protocols' >> already implemented in Emacs in lisp/url/url-about.el >> Then why not to support more 'about' URIs like: >> >> about:memory - with data returned from 'garbage-collect' >> about:processes >> about:timers >> about:buffers >> etc. > > Web browsers support this sort of thing because that's a nice ad-hoc way > to display data that you don't want to have in the menus. > > I don't see why Emacs should emulate that odd approach to hiding > information, especially since Emacs already has commands to display all > this data in a sensible manner. Like I said, `M-x list-timers' will > always be better (for the users) than dumping some data into HTML and > letting shr render it. It would take a lot time and huge effort to implement all these URI resources. It is a great relief for me to know this is not something that would be desirable. Thanks for saving my time :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation Lars Ingebrigtsen 2019-12-25 21:59 ` Juri Linkov @ 2020-01-08 16:43 ` T.V Raman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: T.V Raman @ 2020-01-08 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Juri Linkov, Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 1+. Also the proposed "new" approach would require reinventing many wheels that emacs already has -- and as Lars points out, the already existing emacs means for doing this are already better. > >> Web browsers support the officially registered URI scheme 'about' >> to reveal internal state and built-in functions: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/About_URI_scheme >> >> There is one 'about' URI, namely 'about:protocols' >> already implemented in Emacs in lisp/url/url-about.el >> Then why not to support more 'about' URIs like: >> >> about:memory - with data returned from 'garbage-collect' >> about:processes >> about:timers >> about:buffers >> etc. > > Web browsers support this sort of thing because that's a nice ad-hoc way > to display data that you don't want to have in the menus. > > I don't see why Emacs should emulate that odd approach to hiding > information, especially since Emacs already has commands to display all > this data in a sensible manner. Like I said, `M-x list-timers' will > always be better (for the users) than dumping some data into HTML and > letting shr render it. -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 0:36 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation (was: bug#38713: 27.0.50; eww doesn't handle protocols other than https?) Juri Linkov 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier 2019-12-25 23:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2020-01-08 16:44 ` T.V Raman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2019-12-25 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, larsi, emacs-devel > about:memory - with data returned from 'garbage-collect' > about:processes > about:timers > about:buffers > etc. I don't think we should create new HTML-rendered UIs for the above. But maybe it would be nice to arrange for EWW to somehow redirect `about:buffers` to `list-buffers`. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2019-12-25 23:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2020-01-08 16:44 ` T.V Raman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-12-25 23:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel, Juri Linkov Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > I don't think we should create new HTML-rendered UIs for the above. > But maybe it would be nice to arrange for EWW to somehow redirect > `about:buffers` to `list-buffers`. I don't really see why anybody would prefer to type `M-x eww RET about:buffers RET' instead of `M-x list-buffers'. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier 2019-12-25 23:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-01-08 16:44 ` T.V Raman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: T.V Raman @ 2020-01-08 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Juri Linkov, Eli Zaretskii, larsi, emacs-devel This form of redirection would be much better --though I fail to see the use cases for it -- perhaps as a means of sharing such info across sessions/users? -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-01-08 16:44 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <87pngggdma.fsf@mail.linkov.net> [not found] ` <87bls0t00q.fsf@gnus.org> [not found] ` <87woammyb4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> [not found] ` <83lfr1wxo6.fsf@gnu.org> 2019-12-25 0:36 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation (was: bug#38713: 27.0.50; eww doesn't handle protocols other than https?) Juri Linkov 2019-12-25 21:43 ` Using eww as browser for Emacs internals and documentation Lars Ingebrigtsen 2019-12-25 21:59 ` Juri Linkov 2020-01-08 16:43 ` T.V Raman 2019-12-25 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier 2019-12-25 23:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2020-01-08 16:44 ` T.V Raman
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