Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

tsdh-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org (Tassilo Horn) writes:

>  ;;;###autoload
> +(when (boundp 'browse-url-default-handlers)
> +  (add-to-list 'browse-url-default-handlers
> +               `(,debbugs-browse-gnu-url-regexp . debbugs-browse-url)))

Hm...  it's usually not ideal to change behaviour just by loading a
package, is it?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

I've talked with Stefan about this and for that very reason, there's browse-url-handlers to override the default behavior.

Well, and when you have debugs installed, you most probably want to use it, no?

Bye,
Tassilo

Am Do, 7. Mai 2020, um 14:45, schrieb Lars Ingebrigtsen:
> tsdh-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org (Tassilo Horn) writes:
> 
> >  ;;;###autoload
> > +(when (boundp 'browse-url-default-handlers)
> > +  (add-to-list 'browse-url-default-handlers
> > +               `(,debbugs-browse-gnu-url-regexp . debbugs-browse-url)))
> 
> Hm...  it's usually not ideal to change behaviour just by loading a
> package, is it?
> 
> -- 
> (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>    bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
> 
>

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

"Tassilo Horn" <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> I've talked with Stefan about this and for that very reason, there's
> browse-url-handlers to override the default behavior.
>
> Well, and when you have debugs installed, you most probably want to use it, no?

[...]

>> Hm...  it's usually not ideal to change behaviour just by loading a
>> package, is it?

I don't know -- I find it really annoying when loading a file changes
the way Emacs behaves, but perhaps that's OK for packages?  Is there a
policy here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> I've talked with Stefan about this and for that very reason, there's
>> browse-url-handlers to override the default behavior.
>>
>> Well, and when you have debugs installed, you most probably want to
>> use it, no?
>
> [...]
>
>>> Hm...  it's usually not ideal to change behaviour just by loading a
>>> package, is it?
>
> I don't know -- I find it really annoying when loading a file changes
> the way Emacs behaves, but perhaps that's OK for packages?  Is there a
> policy here?

I don't think there's a policy.  But many packages add to
auto-mode-alist which is quite similar, no?  It also changes the
behavior.

I think adding the handler is appropriate here at least if you've
installed debbugs explicitly.  I have to confess, if debbugs was
installed as a dependency, then having it add a handler could
potentially be annoying.  Though I think no other package depends on it
so far.

Maybe we could add a boolean defcustom to debbugs which tells if the
handler gets added?  But would that work?  I guess no because nowadays
package activation happens before loading ~/.emacs IIRC...

So basically, in this very specific case, I'd say let's make a new
debbugs ELPA release and see how many users start screaming.

And maybe we might even get positive reactions.  I activated
bug-reference-mode in Gnus summary and article buffers, and it is
totally awesome to follow bug#11991 references immediately with
debbugs. (One thing missing here [only in my ~/.emacs] is that you have
to set bug-reference-url-format to the GNU debbugs URL yourself.)

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Stefan Monnier]

> I don't know -- I find it really annoying when loading a file changes
> the way Emacs behaves, but perhaps that's OK for packages?  Is there a
> policy here?

The policy is that loading a file should normally not affect Emacs's
behavior, yes.  *BUT* that just pushes the question to what we mean by
"affect Emacs's behavior".  After all, even just defining a new variable
or function *does* change Emacs's behavior (and in non-trivial ways in
some cases, such as the `eshell/<foo>` functions or the
`vc-<backend>-<operation>` functions).

So there's some finer judgment going on.
Adding oneself to `auto-mode-alist` is considered as acceptable.
I think adding oneself to `browse-url-default-handlers` falls into the
same category.


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> So there's some finer judgment going on.
> Adding oneself to `auto-mode-alist` is considered as acceptable.
> I think adding oneself to `browse-url-default-handlers` falls into the
> same category.

Yeah, I agree -- especially since this is an ELPA package, and not
something a user might just load to futz around with...

(I guess I'm somewhat sensitive to the issue because I poke around in a
bunch of files and have a tendency to load them just to make skipping
around in them easier with `M-.'.  It's so, so annoying to find that
just loading a file suddenly makes Emacs behave differently...  but
that's a problem for developers, and shouldn't take precedence over
what's good for users.) 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Stefan Monnier]

> (I guess I'm somewhat sensitive to the issue because I poke around in a
> bunch of files and have a tendency to load them just to make skipping
> around in them easier with `M-.'.  It's so, so annoying to find that
> just loading a file suddenly makes Emacs behave differently...  but
> that's a problem for developers, and shouldn't take precedence over
> what's good for users.) 

Now that Emacs sometimes loads a file just to find potential completions
in `C-h i` this is something that affects not just "hardcore developers"
but any random end user.

So we should definitely take these problems seriously.


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> (I guess I'm somewhat sensitive to the issue because I poke around in
>> a bunch of files and have a tendency to load them just to make
>> skipping around in them easier with `M-.'.  It's so, so annoying to
>> find that just loading a file suddenly makes Emacs behave
>> differently...  but that's a problem for developers, and shouldn't
>> take precedence over what's good for users.)
>
> Now that Emacs sometimes loads a file just to find potential
> completions in `C-h i` this is something that affects not just
> "hardcore developers" but any random end user.
>
> So we should definitely take these problems seriously.

Since we seem to agree that this specific case is allright, may I
initiate a new debbugs release with that change?  (Feel free to do it
yourself if you want.)

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Michael Albinus]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

I Tassilo,

>> Now that Emacs sometimes loads a file just to find potential
>> completions in `C-h i` this is something that affects not just
>> "hardcore developers" but any random end user.
>>
>> So we should definitely take these problems seriously.
>
> Since we seem to agree that this specific case is allright, may I
> initiate a new debbugs release with that change?  (Feel free to do it
> yourself if you want.)

I have no objection in making a new debbugs release, but I also have no
opinion in the discussed problem. Don't know, if everybody "seem to
agree".

> Bye,
> Tassilo

Best regards, Michael.

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Stefan Monnier]

> Since we seem to agree that this specific case is allright, may I
> initiate a new debbugs release with that change?  (Feel free to do it

Yes, of course,


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Since we seem to agree that this specific case is allright, may I
>> initiate a new debbugs release with that change?  (Feel free to do it
>
> Yes, of course,

Done, thanks!

Now that this is done, I would like to make `bug-reference-mode' usable
for emacs dev without user configuration.  Wouldn't it make sense
(mostly for us Emacs contributors) to make

  "https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=%s"

the default value of `bug-reference-url-format' (which has no default
value right now)?  Then you could simply enable `bug-reference-mode'
wherever you want (especially in MUAs like rmail/Gnus/mu4e) and
bug#17171 become clickable and opened immediately in debbugs if
installed or in your browser.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Basil L. Contovounesios]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Now that this is done, I would like to make `bug-reference-mode' usable
> for emacs dev without user configuration.  Wouldn't it make sense
> (mostly for us Emacs contributors) to make
>
>   "https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=%s"

AKA "https://debbugs.gnu.org/%s"

> the default value of `bug-reference-url-format' (which has no default
> value right now)?  Then you could simply enable `bug-reference-mode'
> wherever you want (especially in MUAs like rmail/Gnus/mu4e) and
> bug#17171 become clickable and opened immediately in debbugs if
> installed or in your browser.

-- 
Basil

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Stefan Monnier]

> the default value of `bug-reference-url-format' (which has no default
> value right now)?  Then you could simply enable `bug-reference-mode'
> wherever you want (especially in MUAs like rmail/Gnus/mu4e) and
> bug#17171 become clickable and opened immediately in debbugs if

Right, but bug#345 also becomes clickable in places where it has nothing
to do with Emacs :-(

`debbugs.el` could configure Gnus/Rmail/mu4e to set this var when
viewing a message sent to emacs-devel, tho.


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> the default value of `bug-reference-url-format' (which has no default
>> value right now)?  Then you could simply enable `bug-reference-mode'
>> wherever you want (especially in MUAs like rmail/Gnus/mu4e) and
>> bug#17171 become clickable and opened immediately in debbugs if
>
> Right, but bug#345 also becomes clickable in places where it has
> nothing to do with Emacs :-(

Yes, that's true.  And essentially that's the case right now, too,
except that "clicking" it (C-c RET) is no no-op whereas it would open a
wrong (emacs) bug then.

> `debbugs.el` could configure Gnus/Rmail/mu4e to set this var when
> viewing a message sent to emacs-devel, tho.

Nah, what does that have to do with debbugs really?  The task is to set
the right `bug-reference-url-format' automatically.  How the bug report
is opened later on is handled by `browse-url-handlers' and
`browse-url-default-handlers'.

How about adding a defcustom `bug-reference-guess-url-format-functions'
and a defvar `bug-reference-guess-url-format-default-functions' being
lists of zero-arg functions guessing the right
`bug-reference-url-format' from things like VCS URL of the current file,
Gnus group, rmail, etc.  Again the "default" one would be for making
Emacs (packages like Gnus) hook in, the other is for the user.

I'd be willing to work on that.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Stefan Monnier]

> How about adding a defcustom `bug-reference-guess-url-format-functions'

Sounds good.


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] master 2a29130: Make debbugs install a handler in browse-url-default-handlers.

[Tassilo Horn]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

>>> Since we seem to agree that this specific case is allright, may I
>>> initiate a new debbugs release with that change?  (Feel free to do
>>> it
>>
>> Yes, of course,
>
> Done, thanks!

Have I done something wrong?  I increased the Version to 0.23 but still
the current ELPA version is 0.22.

Bye,
Tassilo