From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Edebug (was: Opaque objects and Emacs documentation) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6edffb7d-7708-534f-93ad-bf9180f5e0ed@yandex.ru> <835zamjsvk.fsf@gnu.org> <831rlajock.fsf@gnu.org> <1fcdc463-b3ab-2d32-31d7-904783ae0d81@yandex.ru> <83y2nii6sk.fsf@gnu.org> <69716ecb-8984-23e0-8b44-322ea3582384@yandex.ru> <20200721193618.GA8562@ACM> <39246b13-744d-3680-50ee-d8946a3ac060@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25967"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , eliz@gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 22 00:13:00 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jy0VQ-0006cO-9E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:13:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43036 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jy0VP-00075y-5W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35118) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jy0Ur-0006ev-92 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:38672) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jy0Up-0005Ap-2q; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:24 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D6DD1809C8; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 19E8B80300; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:19 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1595369539; bh=Ai8E/dGHXvDcpPgkDKXzJuqtpSunBZ69rQUmyUbaJ5c=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=CfCD0T/Yph/ZQS99gvAkB4tfLO8eYyhC88gsZS4fBrAk7J02zo8Ezpzl7zNAZUMNU Xy4Z33Qg7ctTM1NtL3IlC6UC8Ulem94FE61C+8SW7CUrtMiK382KEXz1b0IzrePgVP OPdlqgdJ7ATVmA0QJT2qN4v8Do0ipdTDhbTJESeSIoasf4vL8eoZMzjq/bx6OA1x4t aR6VKXv6hKHQpX3spMJOE8BizbGMW+rj2FyFwp3Xv+LAvYJJuzfkhqlCJHfWCMBejE hdCRn09w23Ey4oRnLSl1kDg6BAHa+NGTj0/SDFk/08acmONtRMTtKZQR3sRMlReWcW i6Xg1s3RXOsXg== Original-Received: from milanesa (unknown [104.247.229.155]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C82F71204A7; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:12:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <39246b13-744d-3680-50ee-d8946a3ac060@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:17:18 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/21 18:12:21 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253152 Archived-At: > Edebug is difficult. So far I have no idea why that is: perhaps because of > the coding style, but more likely just due to the problem domain. I think Edebug deserves a fair bit of work, indeed. Most importantly in the form of comments to describe the data-structures and control-flow. Without this info it's hard to decide whether the actual code could be improved much, tho. IIUC the debug-specs are similar to PEGs, so maybe they'd benefit from being described in these terms. >> When gaps are found in that interface, people will use the internal >> details to craft a workaround whether the documentation is there or >> not. (I have done this at least once in the past.) Emacs is built on the idea that allowing the user to do that is a good idea. IOW, we embrace this "problem" as a feature. But that doesn't mean that we're bound to preserve compatibility with such hacks. Stefan