From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [nongnu] main 74116339a8 2/3: * elpa-packages (anzu): New package Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:23 -0500 Message-ID: References: <164145738158.2838.5769558384331859964@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20220106082302.0A19CC0DA1E@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <87k0fdmbat.fsf@posteo.net> <87tueh3s2x.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtjvd10u.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20018"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 16 23:20:52 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n9DtM-00054h-A2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 23:20:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36906 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9DtK-00050I-Rh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:20:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9DsA-0004HU-4L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:58834) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9Ds6-00062a-Ux for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:37 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BC702804F6; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:31 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0161880043; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:29 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1642371570; bh=dB9C9IVBzWqpW4lnt3vVMfeXtZGSEpOVB1+e5VTt+ZM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=m3Ba+WDPCP+6m2BTQcedCyjTSToYnMf7Z4yCIkXGpP4Xc7cLCzx/P275piTjYmt6e 0ySlVZEahaPnuYNRKlnOw+1pxHxJlJ4h8yLy/oUTIU9tUmOpc9iNLYgHP+umccoanv woXWWF+q0aNjIRCiZB/LJZ5bRQdxhJCoKGlgE7Ycb6G79h9cA/fl2JXhi0a+HgD3PK yKyBJyLvO91IZefdZaoMQN8ADcEwUgLEFyQ9VJSlyUQl1v14LDXZXuZdvNAt05z27W tI1gMM89r76bs3cXTeO7g72Np7trd7Mu13QkxgU7rheaKXrs2qkU1WpiSx36peEWNu Re94wvmvstptQ== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.30.173]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2B401201C8; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:19:29 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87mtjvd10u.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:49:05 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284849 Archived-At: > Interesting idea, though it should probably be opt-in, at the risk of > skewing the popularity data towards enthusiasts. Just one thing: It > seems like this would either require a special server or to scrub the > server logs. Is either of that feasible? The webserver on elpa.gnu.org is under our control, so yes we have access to the log. I believe the same holds for MELPA. As for "opt-in", I don't see any need to add user-control to it, but we should rather show more complete data (like a histogram) so the users can get a better sense of what's going on. >> I also think we should have a "rating" system in place, which should >> also somehow include information on which version/date the user rated >> the package in. > Would also be nice. I don't know how to do that, OTOH (at least in a way that's not too susceptible to ridiculous amounts of bias). > If we have Evil, it seems necessary to add some of extensions, as Evil > appears to not be complete on it's own. But as this is an entire > package-space onto itself, I am uncertain which of these are actually > being used and which are obsoleted by either other evil-specific > packages, other general packages or even features in Emacs. There seems to be a fair bit of duplication here, in that many of those Evil-specific packages would benefit from being made non-specific to Evil (or merged with similar non-Evil-specific packages). >> I'm not sure if we should have a public record of packages we decide >> *not* to add. If we did, one place to put it would be just directly >> `nongnu/elpa-packages` itself, in the regular alphabetical order, which >> is a place you're less likely to forget looking in. > It might not be bad to collect these notes somewhere. I agree with Stefan (the usurper) in that `elpa-packages` is a good place for that. > On the topic of critical mass: It might be possible to spread NonGNU > ELPA via compat (https://git.sr.ht/~pkal/compat), as soon as it is > released. I don't understand hat you meant by that. Do you mean to have `compat` do (add-to-list 'package-archives '("nongnu" . ...)) ? > But as the package is already borderline heretical, I hesitate to do > something like this (the same applies to updating the default rcirc > and erc server lists). Maybe we can make it safe enough via something like (when (member package-archives '((("gnu" . "https://...")) (("gnu" . "http://...")))) (add-to-list 'package-archives '("nongnu" . ...))) so it only adds the entry when nothing's been changed yet. Stefan