From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Installer for MS Windows Date: 24 Aug 2004 15:58:25 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <001401c478de$908a92d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <1091508072.20683.201576204@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4111491A.4090601@runestig.com> <4111D8D4.1040506@runestig.com> <1091693906.8538.201741376@webmail.messagingengine.com> <001d01c47afa$c1f5f170$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <003e01c48946$a8ebfad0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <011201c48a06$469eb6e0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <016f01c48a10$f6081090$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1093377587 24536 80.91.224.253 (24 Aug 2004 19:59:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:59:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 24 21:59:23 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BzhRy-0001Qa-00 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:59:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BzhWV-0000c4-5U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:04:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BzhWN-0000a7-DK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BzhWL-0000ZM-EO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BzhWL-0000ZJ-AB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:03:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BzhRI-0000lS-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:58:40 -0400 Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DED5B3027C; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3147C8CA23; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" In-Reply-To: <016f01c48a10$f6081090$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> Original-Lines: 44 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=0, requis 5) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:26452 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:26452 > Ok, I believe we think the same way. What I want to do is just add some > things to make it more easy to get started using Emacs for an ms windows > user: > 1) Gnuserv is loaded > 2) Some windows specific printing entries to the menus since printing > otherwise tends to be a problem when you start with Emacs on ms windows. I > also remove the unix-related printing entries from the menus because they do > not work or do not work as you expect them to. Of course I make this as > customization options. > 3) I also offer some keyboard tweaks (CUA-mode, swbuff.el tighed to C-tab) > that can be good for an ms windows user. It is of course also in this case > very important that they are customization options. > 4) recentf.el are also added, most ms windows programs has something like > this. > If no one has a good objection I will load things from default.el then. > I will do this by loading one file only from default.el to not clutter > default.el. [ I think changes to the default should be done in Emacs proper rather than in packages of Emacs. So I basically disagree with all those changes since they are not intrinsically bound to your package. I might agree to changing some of those defaults, but I think we should clearly separate the packaging from the user-preferences. I.e. keep things as vanilla as possible. ] - If printing doesn't work right out of the box, it should be fixed directly in Emacs. Fixing it in your package is a bad solution. - I don't understand exactly what you mean by "...that they are customization options". - Assuming a user disagrees with your choice, how is she to revert your changes in her .emacs file? let's say I start your Emacs and see "gee he turned on CUA-mode, that sucks for me". What do I do? Normally, to turn CUA off, a user should do (CUA-mode -1) or you use custom. Your site-start.el or default.el changes should correctly react to either one of those things. Stefan