From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:17 -0500 Message-ID: References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87zkcubbfc.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87vcnibb9t.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87r4y6bams.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <4F3198CE.9000900@dancol.org> <87bop6g054.fsf@fleche.redhat.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328898591 20523 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2012 18:29:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: egnartsms@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, nix@esperi.org.uk, dancol@dancol.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Tom Tromey Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 10 19:29:49 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RvvEC-0006Rn-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:29:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40140 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvvEB-0008IT-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:33498) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvvE5-0008I9-H8 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvvE0-0002Ih-VS for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:41 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:54696) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvvE0-0002IT-Nv; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:36 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApsIANFhNU9MCqD0/2dsb2JhbABErl1+gQiBcwEFViMQCzQSFBgNJMEoiSaCDR0ZCkIMBwgGBAUDAYNjBYQTBIhJmw+EWg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,397,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="162518380" Original-Received: from 76-10-160-244.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.160.244]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 10 Feb 2012 13:29:18 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id DA94358F68; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:29:17 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87bop6g054.fsf@fleche.redhat.com> (Tom Tromey's message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:48:23 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148451 Archived-At: RMS> Why would it apply to EIEIO? > Because to me EIEIO seems to fit the same criteria as cl.el: it is > pretty big, it is derived from Common Lisp, and it uses Common Lisp > names (so intrudes on the "user namespace"). The namespace use is indeed problematic. It needs a serious cleanup. The (defvar this nil) is *really* nasty, since the unsuspecting user may want to do (let ((this ...) (that ...)) ... (lambda (x) (...this...that...))) and be surprised to discover that his closure did not close over `this' because it's a special (i.e. dynamically bound) variable. Stefan