From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Keymap initialization Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:34:04 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20170615210438.18512.16715@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170615210440.2D57C206CD@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170626163957.GB2471@acm> <20170626180807.GC2471@acm> <20170626211333.GF2471@acm> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1498530944 10470 195.159.176.226 (27 Jun 2017 02:35:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 02:35:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 27 04:35:40 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgLs-0002PG-Ku for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 04:35:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50035 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgLw-0005wn-5e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:35:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58127) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgKd-0005bl-N8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:34:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgKa-00016v-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:34:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=59212 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgKa-00016I-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:34:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dPgKM-0006UF-RC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 04:34:06 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 51 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:fM4DvwPMwQniR/8jEZGr6u0ar+E= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216019 Archived-At: > Only CC Mode developers are likely to be reloading the file. But every maintainer has that same need for its own files, so it'd be better to solve this for others as well. > It can actually be written and maintained. CC Mode probably rates > amongst the top few packages in terms of difficulty, and that difficulty Actually, your keymap setup looks pretty straightforward. Definitely not more complex than most other packages. And now that I look more closely, I see that the bindings in those maps have basically stayed unchanged for the last 20 years or so, so the need to update the map when you reload the file can't have bitten you that many times (if ever). The only keymap that's seen changes (e.g. the recent addition of c-toggle-comment-style) is apparently c-mode-base-map, and for some reason you haven't applied that same change to it, so reloading cc-mode.el won't update the only map which might need updating. Obviously, I'm missing something. > Such patches are beyond my capacity to make, certainly if I want to > carry on with CC Mode, too. Implementing something like M-x reload-file OTOH would give the same kind of benefit without needing to patch any file. >> I often see that as well. My reaction is to try and change that in >> a way which works for everyone. Your reaction instead seems to be "oh >> screw them, I'll do it my way". > There are a few improvements I've tried to make in the Emacs core, only > to get knocked back. Yes, it can be hard work. > Some of the things you seem to want in CC Mode would complexify it. We just don't have the same definition of complexity. > Given how little difficulty either approach will cause in practice, > there seems to be little to speak for a rigid common approach. We have, > perhaps, both been wasting time over the past few hours discussing it. CC-mode has been a thorn in the side while I was maintaining Emacs because it always does everything differently. I find it very important to try and solve this problem. Stefan