From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 14:39:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="71496"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Richard Stallman , Emacs developers , =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: =?windows-1252?B?Sm/jbyBU4XZvcmE=?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 05 20:40:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jW2U7-000IRr-QL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 20:40:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59454 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW2U6-0006fH-Pg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 14:40:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55086) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW2TQ-0005pi-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 14:39:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:61632) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jW2TO-0001w0-1k; Tue, 05 May 2020 14:39:19 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4D15D814A1; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8EA1681246; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:39:14 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1588703954; bh=TqdOdADLqbADnPRB6cfQSkYs03JW1i/HHjlpuTtCu4k=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ZBf1UnePaKYu2CuaIQTVzctiQ489yQEziBxS+5VGBx32Y3iuxe6zovxwOI4xdVzQx S7c7oQbDx/Qb1rdD3FWZomMlr7j0YFCFVh/jjeHW6v8NB/4baScOSCr9bPkF1EN1Ur B7S+HonjwXoVUz3CXlWNfnv+nOs9m91f4ROOu/AwJbpxQN/MCJuQwgrKXLFeloz+BG 0FpGQaA/UP9WJI0azQ6zgPdb3RXtiW9N8ugvjufnH6a9nKtaVdO2/BQ/72PfOgxP7w bclEMoOFBRYmCNkNu0TCYIRzQ0I0z74SKXLcGg3lAKRY5i2RqfmYJAkq0vrA3y0qYa 8cqY9rrahh4zw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2828C1201B9; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:39:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Jo=E3o_T=E1vora=22's?= message of "Tue, 5 May 2020 19:02:37 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/05 13:23:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249020 Archived-At: >>>> You'll always get a group of people that really expected it to be >>>> multibyte-string and group of people that expect string-multibyte. >> There is a naming standard that every Elisp programmer must learn, it's >> the use of a namespace prefix to group elements. Sadly, this standard >> is only taken half-seriously for non-core Elisp definitions. > > Hmmm. You are implying that "core" definitions are exempted from > this right? No, I mean that we take this convention half-seriously for non-core code, and we mostly disregard it for core code. And all this discussion is about some of us thinking that we *should* take it quarter-seriously for the some of the core as well. There can be good reasons to have exceptions, exemptions, etc... but they should be understood as that. From this point of view, I think it's hard to justify an exception for `multibyte-string-p` (the only argument so far would be that it returns nil rather than signaling an error when called with a non-string, making it marginally more like a type-test than about extracting a 1bit-field from a string data object). > Jo=E3o "who thinks this renaming has a bit of good ol' OCD in it" Could be. But I think it's also just good practice. OCD would be to force the use of such namespacing *everywhere* and we're pretty far from that. Stefan