From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: decision on moving core packages to ELPA; also move to obsolete? Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:25:46 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86a6ugnopl.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83im94b17m.fsf@gnu.org> <834kknatxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1nqaph6.fsf@gnu.org> <83eejqak4s.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26509"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, daniele@grinta.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 23:27:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpImh-0006nC-HS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 23:27:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47572 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpImg-0007m3-GP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:27:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56406) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpIlc-0006tB-1l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:26:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:41129) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpIlX-00039a-FH; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:25:58 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E9219808B0; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:25:53 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5476C805BE; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:25:47 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1608071147; bh=K1bhjzuvtnGWcq4xuuHeSo36Ypa6ntsgoRi0kF6PUm4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=KQq+5E2Ts7F8ZNKT17/j8/PAceE2juEJJ8f3zjNCyzIOSEVwqAz1akvNgoGWM+vzC yx//WGE8TaPjshzZaTzdD1EXPgytHar1QwNZfhFHsGgOGn6TIGKkTLFzGQwJp9yQbX gvvv4LTO8mN83fQsXPUoBExlAorgrOexTBxRk9JfFWLbuL1zUAPY2PIA+qNroI5mbk QcSFOE2Jnj+8cf5FDCL7agsXVLzQae49ib63DHCyuX+gea8ICwcL1Z5cnipx8cROtK 5CUCuYZX1CGtpaEbWVQXv4KfJ6TkxA0bFN41Zb8ZNKFVRQvTPiZWnIGYq6ifsIAHlL Bx9Jr14cHupjw== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-165-136-52.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.165.136.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD7EB1202C2; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:25:46 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83eejqak4s.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 2020 22:29:07 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260938 Archived-At: > Are you talking about something that already works, or about something > that _could_ work, after some changes? The sysadmin scenario I described is one that has worked pretty much from the beginning of package.el. > If the former, then where's the code to support it? `package-activate` is the function which activates the "preferred" version of a package among those that have been found. >> > And what about the relation between the version in ELPA and the >> > branches/versions of Emacs in the Emacs repository? IOW, how will a >> > package that needs Emacs version N+1 work with Emacs version N? >> >> What about it? The packages bundled with Emacs-N+1 would *not* be in >> the `package-directory-list` of Emacs-N (and vice-versa), so there'd be >> no particular issue at stake here. > That won't fly, because usually some previous version of that same > package did work with Emacs-N. I don't see how this statement relates to what I said or to what you had said before. > And since packages don't usually have a stable branch and > a development branch, how to bundle them and how to upgrade them later > becomes a mess. That's a very vague statement, so I'm not sure what to do here. > Some of that was discussed in this thread, for example: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-11/msg01000.html This thread talks about issues that happen if you install a package Foo-N.M from an Emacs session where Foo-P.Q is in active use. This applies to bundled and unbundled packages equally and is completely orthogonal to the discussion at hand. [ Yes, the discussion was around Org, because it's a large and popular package, so it's one where the problem appeared with more frequency, and it also happens to be distributed with Emacs, but that's just an accidental aspect: the same problem affected (and to some extent still affects) other non-bundled packages. ] > how can we ever get this stuff to maturity if we cannot test-drive it > until it is too late? I guess at this point the question for me is: are you interested in finding a positive answer to the question? Stefan