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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org>
Subject: Re: Emacs 23 character code space
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:16:49 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvbpw7dr2w.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <uk5aviv36.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:28:13 +0200")

> What exactly is meant here by ``8-bit characters''?  Do you mean
> eight-bit raw bytes, or do you mean Unicode characters whose
> codepoints are below 256?

It should be eight-bit raw bytes.  In some cases it's difficult to tell
the difference, so Emacs may occasionally accept latin-1 chars as stand
ins for eight-bit raw bytes.

>     Converting unibyte text to multibyte text leaves @acronym{ASCII}
>     characters unchanged, and converts 8-bit characters (codes 128
>     through 159) to the corresponding representation for
>     multibyte text.
> Again, by ``8-bit characters'' you mean raw 8-bit bytes here, right?

Yes.

I think we should state somewhere that unibyte strings and buffers
contain bytes only.  And that multibyte strings and buffers contain
chars.  And that bytes are a subset of chars.

>     @defun string-to-multibyte string
>     This function returns a multibyte string containing the same sequence
>     of characters as @var{string}.  If @var{string} is a multibyte string,
>     it is returned unchanged.
>     @end defun

> I'm not sure I understand the effect of this function.

It returns a string containing the same bytes (in the sense of
ASCII+eight-bit, not in the sense of the underlying internal
representation, which we should as much as possible not mention
anywhere) but in a multibyte string instead.  I.e. the output is
a multibyte string of the same length whose chars are bytes.

>     @defun string-to-unibyte string
>     This function returns a unibyte string containing the same sequence of
>     characters as @var{string}.  It signals an error if @var{string}
>     contains a non-@acronym{ASCII} character.  If @var{string} is a
>     unibyte string, it is returned unchanged.
>     @end defun

> Since this function handles any non-ASCII characters lossily, when
> would it be useful?

I think the "non-ASCII" part is incorrect.  It probably should say
"non-byte char" instead.  It's useful when you have a multibyte string
which you (think you) know only holds bytes.

In 99% (actually 99.99999% for the `as' case) of the cases you shouldn't
use string-{as/make/to}-{uni/multi}byte.  Instead you should use
{en/de}code-coding-string.

>     @defun multibyte-char-to-unibyte char
>     This convert the multibyte character @var{char} to a unibyte
>     character.  If @var{char} is a non-@acronym{ASCII} character, the
>     value is -1.
>     @end defun

>     @defun unibyte-char-to-multibyte char
>     This convert the unibyte character @var{char} to a multibyte
>     character.
>     @end defun

> Again, when are these functions useful?

Rarely.


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2008-11-23  4:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-11-01 14:20 Emacs 23 character code space Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-01 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-03  1:34 ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-03 12:45   ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-03 20:13     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-04  7:35       ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-04 20:19         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-05 12:27           ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-05 18:23             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-22 18:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-26  1:41               ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-26  4:13                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-26  4:24                   ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-26  4:58                     ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-26 20:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-26 22:52                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-11-27  1:10                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-11-27  1:35                           ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-26 20:18                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-27  1:29                       ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-29 17:12                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-12-02  5:40                           ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-28 13:19                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-12-02  5:44                   ` Kenichi Handa
2008-12-02 19:40                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-29 12:01             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-22 16:28     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-23  4:16       ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2008-11-23 11:22         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-26  1:51         ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-23  8:29       ` Ulrich Mueller
2008-11-23 11:11         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-23 11:55           ` Ulrich Mueller
2008-11-24  3:06         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-26  1:31       ` Kenichi Handa
2008-11-22 17:03     ` New function: what-file-line, used when writing gdb script richardeng
2008-11-07  7:21 ` Emacs 23 character code space Kenichi Handa
2008-11-07 10:27   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-11-07 11:52     ` Kenichi Handa

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