From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <873686bbl5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87d07963ec.fsf@fastmail.fm> <873685dq73.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wo5gc0kb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lflv5yzx.fsf@bernoul.li> <433E8CA0-CC87-4877-B9D4-D348531B73F8@medranocalvo.com> <87lflsyfwu.fsf@russet.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="28978"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: jonas@bernoul.li, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, adrian@medranocalvo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ohwoeowho@gmail.com, self@gkayaalp.com, Phillip Lord To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 06:43:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaXcT-0007Pf-Cp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 06:43:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45262 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaXcS-000864-CI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:43:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaXbz-0007gN-GT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:22935) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaXby-0007Er-1c; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1913280A5E; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1268980AEF; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:42 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1589776962; bh=VLfKyJkuy0jVk04z3if4cHRQLs8Vye//5m7rASgEEfU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=C5ODD9hwkgX/GOZ09dhZNkxDc8/dsi9Ob354XDzyDC0ZeoP8+dfyF9HVtrHmKetVa +pn5zLjMl+SzVq/kMtGuKtLVV3s5a1209N82A3wuqrJNovrqFiW7Z3hne2XxvXPNeR FB0HuJP9VVAZGlxqzLLC36UV8ppWzZFaCg1+fuk3UjXXUDHpxVRZg9y3dRLKn6hoF3 k3z2wj0ZUhgH+lk7aw5nesdq6oVSflrcHShApUgfqI3Kv2pLwNh/4m84AaipXYTSuu +fD6m9YGweFDLORkNXJcPM0Ryso6QIww+9U5oJlMDxZZK6lO2Vp/nLG2ZRVFD2/9Hh gbzCkvi01H2wg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.27.250]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97CAD1202E9; Mon, 18 May 2020 00:42:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 17 May 2020 23:47:12 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/18 00:42:44 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250707 Archived-At: > However, we could implement both syntaxes, use the $ syntax in the > short term, and convert external packages to the # syntax in a few > years. > > Let's see what Eli thinks about it. FWIW, I'm not too fond of such shorthand syntax. The benefit is not very high and it makes the language that much more difficult to learn for newcomers. For a programming language like Closure, it might make sense, since most/all people writing Closure programs are actual programmers that have to be proficient in Clojure. But Elisp lambdas are very common in .emacs files, so this additional complexity will be exposed to some of our users who aren't programmers or aren't proficient in Elisp. [ Yes, I know it may sound strange coming from me, since I'm to blame for a lot of complexity in Elisp :-( But to my defense, `pcase` and `cl-defmethod` aren't nearly as often needed in .emacs as lambdas. ] I can already see the discussions in forums about "what's the difference between #(f % 1) and (lambda (x) (f x 1))", "when should I use which", ... If we want to shorten anonymous functions we could start with something like (=CE=BB (x) (f x 1)), which you can get with prettify-symbols-mode already. Stefan