From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:58:48 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878x1ov227.fsf@jurta.org> <878x1os6mt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <85ablvftqe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203533249 21634 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 18:47:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:47:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Sascha Wilde , lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de, Miles Bader To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 19:47:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRtyu-0003KJ-GV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:47:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRtyP-0005OZ-Jm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:47:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRtDn-00013H-Eq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:07 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRtDk-0000yD-Qb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRtDk-0000xw-JA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRtDY-0003my-Ah; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:58:52 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CADL5u0fO+J2cdGdsb2JhbACQUgEwn3+BAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,382,1199682000"; d="scan'208";a="14757254" Original-Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2008 12:58:49 -0500 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.157.156]) by smtp.pppoe.ca (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id ATA98048; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:58:48 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8C5147F48; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:58:48 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <85ablvftqe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:41 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:49 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89724 Archived-At: >> Whenever I use "emacs -Q" or some similar "vanilla Emacs", the first >> thing that I'm urged to do is M-x transient-mark-mode (and it was >> already N=B01 back when fotn-lock-mode wasn't the default). >>=20 >> Of course, I'm sure I'd be able to learn to live without it. It seems >> like an option affect people *very* strongly, so those who want it >> *really* want it, and those who don't *really* don't. > That means that it has presumably some strong advantages and some strong > disadvantages. If they are not immediate consequences of one another, > the controversy might be better resolved by lessening the disadvantages > rather than having to choose. If anybody has an idea how to reduce the disadvantage of tmm, I'm all ears. `mark-even-if-inactive' is already set, so most things work exactly as before (other than visual artifacts). So all that's left is the visual "burden" and the cases where the mark is active when you don't want it. The visual burden boils down to the choice of colors and I'll let other people deal with this (I use "grey75", for what it's worth). The issue of the mark being active when you don't want it, is particularly acute for people who push marks for navigation purposes. Maybe we could make C-SPC C-SPC in tmm push the mark and deactivate it. That might be sufficient for those people who occasionally push marks for navigation. For those who do it often, the best is for them to turn off transient-mark-mode. Stefan