23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Drew Adams]

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emacs -Q
M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
 
The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
 

In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2008-04-04 on LENNART-69DE564
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include
-fno-crossjumping'
 

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Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Juri Linkov]

> emacs -Q
> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
>
> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.

I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
as a button.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

RE: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Drew Adams]

> > emacs -Q
> > M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
> >
> > The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
> 
> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
> as a button.

Yes. It used to be an action button. This is a regression, starting with Emacs
23.

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Chong Yidong]

Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes:

>> emacs -Q
>> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
>>
>> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
>
> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
> as a button.

It's pretty ugly as a button.

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Juri Linkov wrote:
>> emacs -Q
>> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
>>
>> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
> 
> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
> as a button.

Didn't we have a discussion about that before? It might be my fault 
since I found the button disturbing in the context. It was a button that 
did not act in the same context as the other buttons. The other buttons 
operated on the values in some way.

IMO the button made the buffer harder to read. Beside that I think it is 
quite common to display something that reveals more text as a link.

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> emacs -Q
>>> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
>>> 
>>> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
>> 
>> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
>> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
>> as a button.

> It's pretty ugly as a button.

Could we use one of those triangles that either points rightward
(closed/hidden/folded) or downward (open/shown/unfolded)?


        Stefan

RE: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Drew Adams]

> > I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
> > Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
> > as a button.
> 
> It's pretty ugly as a button.

All Customize buttons are pretty ugly. All of Customize is pretty ugly. It's not
ugliness that determines whether something is a link or a button.

RE: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Drew Adams]

> >>> emacs -Q
> >>> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
> >>> 
> >>> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached 
> screenshot.
> >> 
> >> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
> >> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
> >> as a button.
> 
> > It's pretty ugly as a button.
> 
> Could we use one of those triangles that either points rightward
> (closed/hidden/folded) or downward (open/shown/unfolded)?

Maybe, but it might need a tooltip (and maybe a label).
Perhaps put the arrow at the end of the doc-string first line?

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Chong Yidong]

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> Beside that I think it is quite common to display something that
> reveals more text as a link.

Yes.  Since the advent of web browsers, it's become quite common for
programs to do this.

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Chong Yidong]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>>> emacs -Q
>>>> M-x customize-option adaptive-file-first-line-regexp
>>>> 
>>>> The Hide Rest button has a tiny, tiny font. See attached screenshot.
>>> 
>>> I wonder why the Hide Rest button has a link appearance?
>>> Since it doesn't lead anywhere, I think it should be displayed
>>> as a button.
>
>> It's pretty ugly as a button.
>
> Could we use one of those triangles that either points rightward
> (closed/hidden/folded) or downward (open/shown/unfolded)?

It's certainly doable, assuming someone is up for some widget hackery.
(The `checkbox' widget in wid-edit.el is probably a good starting point;
in this case, the checkbox is implemented as a Lisp string that defines
an xbm image.  A similar method is used in startup.el for the "Don't
show this again" checkbox.)

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Juri Linkov]

>> Beside that I think it is quite common to display something that
>> reveals more text as a link.
>
> Yes.  Since the advent of web browsers, it's become quite common for
> programs to do this.

Some web pages abuse links by putting actions usually bound to buttons
that makes bad UI.  But even on web pages there is a convention of
displaying a triangle image for collapsed parts.  So we could try
implementing widget triangles as suggested.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Juri Linkov]

>> Could we use one of those triangles that either points rightward
>> (closed/hidden/folded) or downward (open/shown/unfolded)?
>
> It's certainly doable, assuming someone is up for some widget hackery.
> (The `checkbox' widget in wid-edit.el is probably a good starting point;
> in this case, the checkbox is implemented as a Lisp string that defines
> an xbm image.  A similar method is used in startup.el for the "Don't
> show this again" checkbox.)

I now realized that everything is already in place.  We just need to
put necessary image files to the etc/custom directory.  This is due to
existing code in `widget-visibility-value-create':

    (if (widget-value widget)
	(widget-image-insert widget on "down" "down-pushed")
      (widget-image-insert widget off "right" "right-pushed"))

where strings are image file names for triangle arrows for
collapsed/expanded positions.

I propose to use the following imagery:

down.xpm:
/* XPM */
static char *down[] = {
"10 10 4 1",
" 	c none",
".	c gray90",
"X	c gray45",
"O	c gray75",
"          ",
"........XX",
" ..OOOOXX ",
" ..OOOOXX ",
"  ..OOXX  ",
"  ..OOXX  ",
"   ..XX   ",
"   ..XX   ",
"    .X    ",
"    .X    "};

down-pushed.xpm:
/* XPM */
static char *down_pushed[] = {
"10 10 4 1",
" 	c none",
".	c gray45",
"X	c gray90",
"O	c gray75",
"          ",
"........XX",
" ..OOOOXX ",
" ..OOOOXX ",
"  ..OOXX  ",
"  ..OOXX  ",
"   ..XX   ",
"   ..XX   ",
"    .X    ",
"    .X    "};

right.xpm:
/* XPM */
static char *right[] = {
"10 10 4 1",
" 	c none",
".	c gray90",
"X	c gray45",
"O	c gray75",
"..        ",
"....      ",
"......    ",
"..OO....  ",
"..OOOO....",
"..OOOOXXXX",
"..OOXXXX  ",
"..XXXX    ",
".XXX      ",
".X        "};

right-pushed.xpm:
/* XPM */
static char *right_pushed[] = {
"10 10 4 1",
" 	c none",
".	c gray45",
"X	c gray90",
"O	c gray75",
"..        ",
"....      ",
"......    ",
"..OO....  ",
"..OOOO....",
"..OOOOXXXX",
"..OOXXXX  ",
"..XXXX    ",
".XXX      ",
".X        "};

Also I think that instead of using etc/custom directory it would be
better to put custom image files to etc/images/custom:

Index: lisp/wid-edit.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/wid-edit.el,v
retrieving revision 1.191
diff -u -r1.191 wid-edit.el
--- lisp/wid-edit.el	6 May 2008 07:57:59 -0000	1.191
+++ lisp/wid-edit.el	10 May 2008 00:03:34 -0000
@@ -599,7 +599,7 @@
 ;;; Images.
 
 (defcustom widget-image-directory (file-name-as-directory
-				   (expand-file-name "custom" data-directory))
+				   (expand-file-name "images/custom" data-directory))
   "Where widget button images are located.
 If this variable is nil, widget will try to locate the directory
 automatically."

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: 23.0.60; tiny font in Customize button

[Chong Yidong]

Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes:

>> It's certainly doable, assuming someone is up for some widget hackery.
>> (The `checkbox' widget in wid-edit.el is probably a good starting point;
>> in this case, the checkbox is implemented as a Lisp string that defines
>> an xbm image.  A similar method is used in startup.el for the "Don't
>> show this again" checkbox.)
>
> I now realized that everything is already in place.  We just need to
> put necessary image files to the etc/custom directory.  This is due to
> existing code in `widget-visibility-value-create':
>
>     (if (widget-value widget)
> 	(widget-image-insert widget on "down" "down-pushed")
>       (widget-image-insert widget off "right" "right-pushed"))
>
> where strings are image file names for triangle arrows for
> collapsed/expanded positions.

Indeed, that sounds correct.

> Also I think that instead of using etc/custom directory it would be
> better to put custom image files to etc/images/custom:

Yep.