From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: --without-toolkit-scroll-bars at runtime? Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:28:57 -0500 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111423075 23509 80.91.229.2 (21 Mar 2005 16:37:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 21 17:37:55 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DDPln-00014h-LF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:28:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DDQ2v-0006d9-AT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:46:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DDQ1V-0006Gr-Od for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DDQ1M-0006CR-Ty for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:44:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DDQ1M-0006C9-Qe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:44:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DDPmA-0007NY-T2; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:29:11 -0500 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940C7340013; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:29:10 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D081A4AC257; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:28:57 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B025FE6A41; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:28:57 -0500 (EST) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: (David Kastrup's message of "Mon, 21 Mar 2005 02:36:08 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-4.821, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.08, BAYES_00 -4.90) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34897 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34897 > how difficult would it be to make "--without-toolkit-scroll-bars" a > runtime instead of or in addition to being a compile-time option? I had started to look into it at some point. It's probably not too difficult, but still a fair bit of work. Doesn't look like it's worth the trouble. A more interesting direction (to me anyway) would be to change the toolkit's behavior. Xaw3d (by default) behaves just liek Xaw so you get the 3d look while keeping the flexibility. Sadly RedHat's Xaw3d is not using the default, instead it's compiled with -DARROW_SCROLLBAR to get the dumber behavior (and little arrows at the end), I can't remember what Debian does. It wouldn't be too hard to make the Xaw3d behavior changeable at runtime with Xresoucres. Hopefully someone will make that change. Similarly, it would be good to provide a Gtk "theme" that gives Xaw-like behavior (or some other: there used to be a variety of useful behaviors in various scrollbars, such as the one used in the Smalltalk machine, ...). But I doubt it can currently be done with just a theme. > forward motion without moving the mouse, you can't control the scroll > amount to get just the right window start for getting a > block/function/loop fully on-screen. Something which, by the way, is > also hard to do by keyboard given Emacs' recenter policies. I use C-0 C-l and it's worked fine so far. But I admit I've never tried it with images in the buffer. In any case, it *should* work, so if it doesn't we should try and fix it. Stefan