From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: UI inconveniences with M-. Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 17:04:48 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83zja6b3tc.fsf@gnu.org> <54A2FF47.6010207@yandex.ru> <54A86135.7080004@yandex.ru> <54A90002.7080009@gmx.at> <54A9C3FB.7000602@yandex.ru> <54AA3881.3080304@gmx.at> <54ABBB47.7010603@yandex.ru> <837fszx7iy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3r5wqwv.fsf@gnu.org> <83k2wxwexb.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv7kwbow.fsf@gnu.org> <837fsvuefq.fsf@gnu.org> <837fstu3zh.fsf@gnu.org> <83pp6kqhcg.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430514330 12875 80.91.229.3 (1 May 2015 21:05:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 21:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 01 23:05:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YoI7c-0006BP-GF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 23:05:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55562 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoI7b-0005pg-Ru for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:05:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42852) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoI7H-0005mL-Mu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:05:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoI7G-0000QE-Ro for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:30646) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YoI78-0000Nw-DI; Fri, 01 May 2015 17:04:50 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSQuh2WiEYt4FBIBAgY9DAODPgODcASjY4RY X-IPAS-Result: AgUFAGvvdVS4rw4V/2dsb2JhbAA3gVOhb4EIgXUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSQuh2WiEYt4FBIBAgY9DAODPgODcASjY4RY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,557,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="118039657" Original-Received: from 184-175-14-21.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([184.175.14.21]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 May 2015 17:04:48 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 4FA9E6ADE; Fri, 1 May 2015 17:04:48 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83pp6kqhcg.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 May 2015 21:32:15 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:186103 Archived-At: >> etags.el also failed miserably in some scenarios which xref/elisp >> handles acceptably. E.g. try C-u M-. diff-mode-abrev-table RET. > I don't see diff-mode-abrev-table in TAGS, so I don't understand what > you want to demonstrate with that. Exactly that: etags fails to find the definition site of diff-mode-abrev-table, whereas xref/elisp does find it. >> As I said, going back to etags.el is not an option. > It's definitely an option for this curmudgeon, if the new-and-improved > solution will not become better. Of course you can. I'm only talking about the default. > What do you tell users whose use case is similar to mine? "Use > xref-etags-mode"? Then why did we switch away of etags.el, if we > still need to use its core machinery? We do want to support the etags backend for a long time to come. The old etags.el UI on the other hand, will most likely be phased out (or rewritten on top of the new API no it can also be used with other backends). > I don't want 2 different commands. I know about etags-apropos as > well, but never used it, because I never needed to. Forcing me to use > 2 different commands where I could use one is an annoyance. It's a tradeoff. The upside is that M-. gets you there much quicker then M-. RET C-u M-. C-u M-., and that xref-apropos gives you a quick overview of all the matches, compared to cycling through C-u M-. where you never know how long the cycle will be nor where it will take you next. > Anyway, I'm out of this discussion. Good luck selling your ideas and > use cases to others. I'm not sold. And I don't enjoy having to read > uncalled-for profanities in response to legitimate questions and > issues. I've found you didn't have many constructive suggestions and spent too much time complaining about how the new system doesn't work like the old one. That's frustrating. Stefan