From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cperl-mode: Eliminating references to obsolete packages Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:20:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <63ad78b2-ec6b-8215-e775-db5889f4f94e@posteo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Harald =?windows-1252?Q?J=F6rg?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 25 00:22:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kLZcv-0007ce-8M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 00:22:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42410 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kLZcu-0005Dw-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:22:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57094) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kLZbq-0004f4-KC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:25749) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kLZbo-0002Pn-Gq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id F321A10022C; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1DDE810001F; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:20:57 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1600986057; bh=cgdj4bt+uHfS/ipz7zQXsSGxXUGdid35YQJ8biukz6A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=WMhN57U8aBqlcPdQVqFGJTMRoDY7dFECGbcufbj4XDGMO4T/XimUzhjQERbc+pSlp UVsyZk6XQJMEtYng5Umgp5FY+NQdRD7EnBrUcG0eMYh1FT5JBqSnIHt4sfg+I/v08D 4ExsrpOvp3SpG7Zhvzv+cjuxeETeoYbKC4doZfnZqbqw+3KxUpD3DMzqEISw7pCC83 84lDVgf7OBvMjJkAfPFFnAbqOWJXbQfeB8OIYYY6Ku1LrsleEH2uXfhbCHO7fPdQ74 pacgrcS2S8TPInwo4pusaVVcla7pHp698SJrQzowxSQTzpFsJrtzQb28Xm3rK+rfXS EhoOXWtxSOPzg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C89691203A5; Thu, 24 Sep 2020 18:20:56 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: ("Harald =?windows-1252?Q?J=F6rg=22's?= message of "Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:43:33 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/24 18:20:59 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256405 Archived-At: >> For example that "format-prompt" problem currently also affects the >> python.el GNU ELPA package. Luckily, AFAICT we haven't yet released >> a new python.el package (because the version number has not been >> bumped), but the problem is real. > > I noticed that some of them (but not python.el) contain a comment like > this: > > ;; This is an Elpa :core package. Don't use functionality that is not > ;; compatible with Emacs 24.1. > > ...but I don't know whether that actually helps. It helps in the sense that at least the information is available without having to ask someone, but for things like format-prompt applied via searches like `grep` it's all too easy to overlook. > For me it would be rather cumbersome to find out which functionality > isn't compatible with Emacs 24.1. That's yet another difficulty, indeed. > Some recent doc strings (e.g. time-convert) show it, It's actually not the docstring, it's a hack in the `C-h o` code which adds this info by searching for the name in the etc/NEWS* files. > some (e.g. format-prompt) don't. Indeed. Should be fixed now in `master`. >> [...] >> Some automated tests that try to build&compile (and treat warnings as >> errors) those packages on the corresponding oldest Emacs version >> supported would come in handy. > > Wouldn't this rule out the type of fallback patch you suggested? When > I byte-compile-file cperl-mode.el in Emacs 26.1 _with_ your fallback > patch applied, I still get the warning: > > In end of data: > cperl-mode.el:8736:1:Warning: the function =E2=80=98format-prompt=E2= =80=99 is > not known to be defined. > > Sorta obvious, though: The compilation step doesn't _run_ the fboundp > safeguard. Just use `'format-prompt` instead of `#'format-prompt`. But yes, turning warnings into errors can be tricky on older Emacsen. There are other solutions, tho (e.g. keep an "expected output" against which to compare so we get warned when a *new* warning appears). IOW, the problem for now is to setup those automated tests: finding a machine on which to run them, figuring out which version of Emacs to use for each, making sure the corresponding Emacs version is available, etc... > Anyway: Are there frameworks for such tests in the Emacs repository? I'm not very knowledgeable about that, I'm afraid. Stefan