From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <877h6y7chn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <831ux6cv5o.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3gpku3o.fsf@gnus.org> <834o1ypa2b.fsf@gnu.org> <87aabnn3mz.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83mxfnwwyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ipqbzogt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83liv7wqhe.fsf@gnu.org> <87liv75xsh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83k4arvx05.fsf@gnu.org> <87bow116je.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83wrepyq3r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sjpar2l2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83aabizh94.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcu6b4rp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <8339haynk9.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312982574 30090 80.91.229.12 (10 Aug 2011 13:22:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:22:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, list-general@mohsen.1.banan.byname.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 10 15:22:50 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qr8kD-0004Bb-0V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:22:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36161 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qr8kC-0005Xm-Dz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:55091) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qr8kA-0005Xh-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qr8k9-0007jr-6D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:46 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:12266 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qr8k8-0007je-2h; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:44 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAFeFQk5FxKeo/2dsb2JhbABBp0d4gUABAQQBViMQCzQSFBgNJIgBvmSGRgSfX4Qz X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,350,1309752000"; d="scan'208";a="130423883" Original-Received: from 69-196-167-168.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.167.168]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 10 Aug 2011 09:22:42 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BF2AE6610B; Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:22:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <8339haynk9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:04:22 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143105 Archived-At: >> > When you type "C-x C-s", Emacs clearly shows the characters that >> > cannot be encoded as Latin-1. >> As you said yourself, users should not need to know about the details of >> how bidi works. So we can't assume that they know what left-to-right >> marks are, so they can't know whether the characters that Emacs is >> complaining about are important to keep. > I sometimes get prompted to choose a different encoding when I send > email responses to mail that looked pure ASCII. I'm presented with a > buffer that points to a character that doesn't look "foreign" at all. > If I care to investigate, it turns out that character was an em-dash > or fancy quotes, that just looked "normal" due to the font. Am I > confused? No. I just select the encoding, usually the one suggested > by Emacs as the default, and that's it. > IOW, I see no issue here. But since people make a lot of fuss out of > it, feel free to invent all kinds of weird functions to save them from > themselves. And AFAIK that only affects Rmail users. Other MUAs will just happily choose another encoding (typically utf-8) for you. Stefan