From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:27:09 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <87bnnirso0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <3685170.jtTJPXXftF@descartes> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417804075 21526 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 18:27:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?windows-1252?Q?R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 19:27:47 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwxbX-0000ms-IY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:27:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51910 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwxbX-00078e-5w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:27:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwxbC-00076K-5D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:27:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwxb4-00075b-M7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:27:26 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:45856) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwxaw-00071o-PA; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:27:10 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBpC6BeIQZIYJ3AQEB X-IPAS-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBpC6BeIQZIYJ3AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,502,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="99657245" Original-Received: from 76-10-164-234.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.164.234]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 05 Dec 2014 13:27:09 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id ACCF987F8; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 13:27:09 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <3685170.jtTJPXXftF@descartes> (=?windows-1252?Q?=22R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld"'s message of "Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:27 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178977 Archived-At: > The problem is that info(1) is what most people experience as info. FWIW, I really think that the standalone Info viewer should be kept secret, because it does a disservice to the reputation of the Info format. And I really don't mean it to say that it's bad software: within the constraints of "works only under a tty" and the very little bit of love it gets, you can't expect it to shine. But really, the standalone Info reader should start Emacs, and if Emacs is not installed, it should emit an error message. And only if Emacs is not installed and the user did a secret dance would it then start the true-real-standalone Info-viewer. > I think Texinfo itself has a few issues as well. I only started using it to > write documentation for the 24.4 release. I think Cross References (aka > links) are a bit confusing. I don't have strong opinions about different source formats, and they all have their downsides. The downsides of Texinfo for me are the weird redundancy between @node/@section plus the text used in the menu entry: (very) occasionally it's handy to be able to use 3 different texts for "the name of the node", "the title of the section", "the text in the menu entry", but there should be a way to just completely drop the @node, for instance. The other downside are indeed the crossrefs which seem to be way overengineered. Stefan