From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cannot download packages from elpa Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:06:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871rvucyh7.fsf@dick> <87sgoaaqua.fsf@dick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="188862"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: dick.r.chiang@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 03 16:07:06 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iG1l3-000mxO-OR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 16:07:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36550 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iG1l2-0001oK-0e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:07:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58486) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iG1kT-0001nz-Rk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:06:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iG1kM-00048q-Ep for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:06:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:22906) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iG1kK-000451-G1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5392085239; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 10:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A9A9880E0D; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1570111575; bh=zweilNor1tww6Jihzf6wprpTiambwjgu3MFzIDmOcIY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=k+ZrSL00kM5c0x2WrdPW06yv0fVpjuRteyTAjBC9loZat1AvPnWPZ+i/WO4yNYnpc kz8j9D2i55/ZP4SA3+Nw5N9HxICdlOyso5XHz0bqefx8z9NcHEgVIi5rBEqmJGUqLH 46SOJZN8fWZzRWwRGbX+k2HQjpzgOpq5BCzhuxWGEn3lcMLlmAcqX5pBNBq0W76OCT u6HkTBbq9CNRqg13UiisLKEn6snJuIJf3k+Yh0RnPf7wiDglaSBnKUn0BQ9qvQdOhD aWGkbR1dLOKlo297IjQSxPnKK+NTtoeGW4066XLpY+LZrBrX9H6NpSTI0K6bmnXtOd Ohha8AkBPKYmA== Original-Received: from pastel (76-10-181-40.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.181.40]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41B10120699; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87sgoaaqua.fsf@dick> (dick r. chiang's message of "Thu, 03 Oct 2019 09:41:49 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 132.204.25.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:240508 Archived-At: > Is key expiration not par for the course? It's not clear what could have been > done differently. I hope we'll have an answer to that before the next expiration (in 2024). For me, it's something like: - arrange for gnu-elpa-keyring-update to be pre-installed (and if needed, extra tricks in package.el to encourage the user to update it when it's out of date). So at least any user using M-x package-refresh would get a chance at discovering that there's an update pending. - Create new keys more frequently (e.g. I plan at rolling out a new signing key in 2 years or so) so by the time a key expires, your Emacs already came with a newer key if it's recentish (compared to the new key only appearing in Emacs-26.3, less than a month before the previous key expired). > The tragedies are emacs's outmoded packaging tools, and Being myself outmoded I don't know what is outmoded about package.el. Unless by "outmoded" you mean "makes efforts to protect privacy", in which case I do see what you mean, such as the fact that Emacs doesn't automatically check for updates by contacting some server every time you launch it. On this front, I've been thinking that maybe we could try some steps in the "less outmoded" direction along the lines of: - keep track of the last time we refreshed the local copy of the archive-contents metadata. - if it's older than N months, upon startup, emit a message encouraging/reminding the user to refresh it. Along the same lines, when the local copy of the archive-contents metadata indicates that one of your packages is out of date, we could emit a message encouraging/reminding the user to upgrade it. > elpa's inscrutability. Not sure if you're talking about ELPA the infrastructure/protocol or about GNU ELPA in particular, but in either case, I'll be more than happy to try to explain, especially if that can lead to someone helping me out with GNU ELPA, where I feel much too often quite lonely (additionally to feeling inadequate because it's really not my area of expertise). Stefan