From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/package-vc has been merged Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:10:37 -0500 Message-ID: References: <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <87zgd58i7y.fsf@posteo.net> <83k0492u5i.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsew8g18.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt941cyd.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsewp0ec.fsf@posteo.net> <837d0814c9.fsf@gnu.org> <878rkooz1o.fsf@posteo.net> <831qqg1306.fsf@gnu.org> <874jvcowzm.fsf@posteo.net> <83y1soypvx.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1song5x.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8nsyof7.fsf@gnu.org> <87leoond7l.fsf@posteo.net> <87mt90tyns.fsf@thaodan.de> <87o7tgfw4m.fsf@posteo.net> <87eductx0x.fsf@thaodan.de> <871qqcfs9y.fsf@posteo.net> <875yfotn63.fsf@thaodan.de> <87pmdvsx2g.fsf@thaodan.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2322"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?windows-1252?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Bidar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 09 22:11:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ossLw-0000OR-Ey for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 22:11:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ossLU-00030i-0S; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:10:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ossLO-0002zg-Nu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:10:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ossLM-0000gv-80; Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:10:46 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E2FD310011A; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 16:10:41 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A64521000F3; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 16:10:39 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1668028239; bh=AC9sCFPqo2c277pS/5/oRT6tRb8E015eKpv335WIWXQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Yhr6imKZ8Kx3f8Fu9/xRRclL7g4TFDFFHmjq0nQLmTWkY1xnjtNbLGegm5cUL5li+ Fnt9ElYnJRSskmidOGMmXwbENr2OJ7Erui74ucj4JB8iHSx2Z2wI+VTjTJV7+mPhT+ Avs0WlVJatebzf/2Pm7kAlGIqVPZmuJnZghkYCvSXqJnIMmhAn3fggtxrbbSci/kvH TnaA2jFo/iwGXJo6ioCVsqF7pRVUY/WHmlkNfUKogvQ/QPvU6Uip/KODNz8xATwxOZ R/BFA83z/tMGJHcdSHLIDvZ8u3asFgtf9oCEVC3ZxktfsA+kiSgJ7TfiVsQEMKXv2T WeiNvV3vxCUqA== Original-Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91132120B63; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 16:10:39 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87pmdvsx2g.fsf@thaodan.de> (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Bj=F6rn?= Bidar"'s message of "Wed, 09 Nov 2022 22:16:23 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299437 Archived-At: > The side effect of that process is that there's no standartized way for > these packages to require native modules is that building those packages > in build systems isn't standartized, these packages have to be convinced > to not build binaries while Emacs run but take the prebuild binaries > from the package manager. I'm not completely sure I understand to what you're alluding, but indeed it causes extra work for things like Debian where they would benefit from having a standard way to build (and locate) the extra artifacts like the module of `pdf-tools`. Currently packages like `pdf-tools` and `libpq` are fairly unusual but I'd encourage the development of a standardized way to handle them. Then Debian packagers would be able to take advantage of it. >> I'm hoping that we'll develop a "standard" way to do it in the form of >> some ELisp function/macro so that `pdf-tools`, `libpq`, etc... can >> simply include a line or two of ELisp code which says how to compile >> their artifact (possibly just running `make`, or `ninja`, ...). > I'm not sure if that is always the best solution, But that's what we can get fairly easily without disruption :-) > maybe Melpa isn't the best place such packages. Not sure what Melpa has to do with this, but if you mean the whole of the ELPA infrastructure, then I think this is largely irrelevant: ELPA is popular and users do want to install `pdf-tools` via `M-x package-install`, so while there may be a better solution, we still need to solve this problem. > But just don't run them inside Emacs itself and not synchronously. I lost you here. I have no idea what "them" refers to. Stefan