From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: decision on moving core packages to ELPA; also move to obsolete? Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:47 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86a6ugnopl.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83im94b17m.fsf@gnu.org> <834kknatxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1nqaph6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, daniele@grinta.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 21:13:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGgy-0007K9-5z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 21:13:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40440 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGgx-0001vn-8V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:13:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGfq-00011j-JK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:53971) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGfo-0002Un-6X; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:53 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3E5F744153F; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:50 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C4CBF441098; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:48 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1608063108; bh=EACzSA5zyLYlTA7paSnvb+wORTPzsXCWbb37kG9lFNA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=iR1RikbMXFYNWV9hje7ncWDcbEFI30dneaSPnKE8PICYNc9lNbNJOtzoSx+d4rodh vFYg5XbwuD45WcKE+XMtdZqSm0QEEFYSNJeAIr4opOs7eRuWbHBGndtNlFycPlJAv0 cgJeV2e83+kGnbLkuw/Br6+gB5G2/6HlQmwGrUL1LoYuWZ8a2FomtlgSNh/1XkBEPM jz02+R/GfBFyW4TV1OWi6Z1nYYwWWeJ1RhrcL1tDwnkzFYmRlj+H7uj3Wh5aYWMswL ZMtQm7rSx14kezBTqDQB3EppPwzZNJwQZV6wsHgUNLDIwLO2oa1Ifi2O/TJAtwb6C9 2BS+vjSi1ktgg== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-165-136-52.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.165.136.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 723241203CA; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 15:11:48 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83r1nqaph6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:33:41 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260922 Archived-At: > Doesn't package.el install stuff under ~/.emacs.d/elpa/ ? > If so, what happens with installed Lisp files under /usr/share/ ? The way package.el works, is that it collects all the packages it can find installed locally under `package-directory-list`. This list can contain many different versions of the same package. `package-activate` then choose which ones of those packages to activate, under the constraint that only one version of each package can be activated in a given session (and under the additional constraints setup by the user in `package-load-list`). This was designed so that a sysadmin can install a bunch of packages and users can then make use of them without being stuck using all those the sysadmin has chosen to install, not stuck with the version that the sysadmin installed. If the Emacs tarball bundles packages, it would basically act as "a sysadmin" in this regard. Users could still override that set of bundled packages with older/newer versions or even choose not to activate some of the bundled packages (tho I'd hope that the packages we choose to bundle are clean enough that this would never be useful, just like it's not considered useful for the user to be able to remove stuff from lisp/loaddefs.el). > And what about the relation between the version in ELPA and the > branches/versions of Emacs in the Emacs repository? IOW, how will a > package that needs Emacs version N+1 work with Emacs version N? What about it? The packages bundled with Emacs-N+1 would *not* be in the `package-directory-list` of Emacs-N (and vice-versa), so there'd be no particular issue at stake here. > Bottom line, I feel that there's some kind of "trust us, it will be > fine" attitude here, whereas I would expect careful investigation of > all these aspects and some description of the procedures. AFAIK all the investigation that can be done has been done. I don't doubt that there will be issues to resolve, but I don't think we will find them before we actually start doing it. Stefan