From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: enriched-mode and switching major modes. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:55:37 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200409042358.i84Nwjt19152@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87llfn5ihw.fsf@emacswiki.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1095692178 15600 80.91.229.6 (20 Sep 2004 14:56:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 20 16:56:08 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C9PaK-0002XC-00 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:56:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9PgA-0000Kv-17 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:02:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9Pg2-0000KW-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:02:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1C9Pg0-0000K5-FN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:02:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1C9Pg0-0000K2-Ch for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:02:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C9PZz-0006r5-PC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:55:48 -0400 Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610B3B3027E; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 2DB6C8CA23; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Oliver Scholz In-Reply-To: (Oliver Scholz's message of "Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:17:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=0, requis 5) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:27331 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:27331 > It is basically as you said: you express your intents. But rather > than doing this via a command or markup language, you do it by > interacting with a UI. It's a false dichotomy: Emacs on a tty is a UI. I guess what you mean to say here is that rather than representing the intent as text you'd represent it somehow graphically. Of course this graphical representation depends on the rendering device, so the user can't know the intent unless he remembers how it's represented graphically on this particular device. That might be OK, of course, if the mapping is obvious enough from context. > This abstracts your intent from a specific file format ("deep > representation"). So you don't actually get to see the abstract representation, even though that's really what you're editing. I.e. you're still editing somewhat blind-folded. You're trying to strike a balance between WYSIWYG and plain text. > The benefit is that you do this while looking at the "surface > expression". With something like WhyzzyTeX I get to edit while seeing (rather than "looking at") the surface expression. Stefan