From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Removing unloaded functions from auto-mode-alist. Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:11:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87zmvu6ba2.fsf@xs4all.nl> <85ll7e68ei.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <854qe2ihhi.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87d5spxzml.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <85acntfnlb.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <8564yhcl2a.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1114034192 4411 80.91.229.2 (20 Apr 2005 21:56:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Lute.Kamstra.lists@xs4all.nl, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 20 23:56:30 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DONAn-0004V0-OB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:55:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DONFN-00019w-W9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:00:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DOLeV-0004xn-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:18:27 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DOLeT-0004x0-Cb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:18:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DOLeS-0004GV-Pr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:18:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOLaa-0006Bw-J1; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:14:24 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592E3340012; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from asado.iro.umontreal.ca (asado.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.84]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A8B2CC005; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by asado.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CC579E6C1B; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: <8564yhcl2a.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:19:57 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-4.836, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.06, BAYES_00 -4.90) X-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:36194 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:36194 > I explained already why nothing else makes sense. AUCTeX makes > extensive use of mode cookies in local variables, and those are only > obeyed in the lowercase version. The choice of AUCTeX vs tex-mode is > a user preference and should not be embedded into files. I of course understand why it would override them, but not why it would set major-mode to `latex-mode' rather than to `LaTeX-mode'. In my opinion, LaTeX-mode is the AUCTeX major mode, while latex-mode can be either, depending on the user's preference. > I am still thinking about whether to keep the current scheme which has > tex-mode as the main function and TeX-mode as an alias into it, or > switch that around. I'll very much vote in favor of switching it around. > The problem with a switch is that "autoload" will not replace aliases, > and so I can't replace the Emacs default scheme by just specifying new > autoloads. Indeed, as shown in my sample auctex-override.el you just have to explicitly fmakunbound them before setting up the autoload. No biggie, tho. > You don't have the same problems with Perl as with TeX/LaTeX, namely > that the same file ending ".tex" is used for incompatible major modes > TeX and LaTeX, and so it becomes a good idea to specify the major mode > in local file variables. Doesn't make any significant difference. People still want perl-mode cookies to use cperl-mode, just not as often. They also want the default auto-mode-alist to use cperl-mode (even tho it links .perl to perl-mode), so people typically do (defalias 'perl-mode 'cperl-mode). The real difference is that perl-modes have only one entry point (i.e. `perl-mode') whereas TeX modes have tex-mode, latex-mode, ... so instead of a single defalias, you have to setup a separate file, which I called auctex-override.el. > Anyway, I am not interested in continuing this discussion. AUCTeX has > to deal with aliases in existing Emacs versions, however imprudent, > anyway. If you are concerned about or interested in how it is going > to do that, the right forum would be auctex-devel@gnu.org. I was just answering your own question about the current insanity of your solution. I'm not particularly concerned about AUCTeX, tho I am interested in coming up with a plan for what a clean solution would look like and what is currently missing in Emacs to get that solution working. I think my suggestion of auctex-override is a solution which can be made clean (with some bugfixing in Emacs), so I'm satisfied and will try to fix the corresponding problems. The fact that my solution can also be made to work right now, using some ugly workarounds is not that interesting to me, I just thought you might like to try it. Stefan