From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:32 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878x1ov227.fsf@jurta.org> <878x1os6mt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203526386 27262 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 16:53:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de, Miles Bader To: Sascha Wilde Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 17:53:28 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRsC4-0005ec-MX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:53:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsBZ-0002gS-Sx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsBW-0002fe-VD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsBV-0002eF-Dn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsBV-0002eC-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:41 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRsBO-0004hS-2H; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:34 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPfpu0fO+J2cdGdsb2JhbACQUgEwn3WBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,381,1199682000"; d="scan'208";a="14754422" Original-Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2008 11:52:32 -0500 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.157.156]) by smtp.pppoe.ca (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id ASU87132; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:32 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 642BD7F48; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:32 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89709 Archived-At: > It's not that much of a problem for a simple (transient-mark-mode -1) > in .emacs fixes it. But on the other hand I'm still missing a good > reason for activating it in the first place (after skimming briefly > over this thread). And "it might be ok" is not equal to "it's a good > thing to do", IMO. Whenever I use "emacs -Q" or some similar "vanilla Emacs", the first thing that I'm urged to do is M-x transient-mark-mode (and it was already N=B01 back when fotn-lock-mode wasn't the default). Of course, I'm sure I'd be able to learn to live without it. It seems like an option affect people *very* strongly, so those who want it *really* want it, and those who don't *really* don't. So, that's for my personal preference. As to why turn it on *by default*, here are some reasons why I think it should be ON by default: - Visual feedback about the mark's position and active status. I and all (X)Emacs users I know personally (i.e. off-this-list) and with whom I've talked about transient-mark-mode use transient-mark-mode (or its XEmacs equivalent) and find it difficult to use Emacs without it because of the lack of visual feedback about where the mark really is. I do not claim that this small group of people is representative, but it does seem relevant. - Extended semantics for various commands. Many commands now offer to operate on the region if the region is active but only when transient-mark-mode is ON. This functionality is now also available to non-tmm-users via the temporary-transient-mark-mode (C-SPC C-SPC), admittedly, but while C-SPC C-SPC is easy enough to use, I always find myself selecting the region *before* knowing that I want to use such a command (or selecting the region with something else than C-SPC, typically C-M-SPC), so I end up having to use C-u C-x C-x which I find a lot more inconvenient. -- Stefan