From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Buffer names with R2L characters Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:15 -0400 Message-ID: References: <838vswwk2b.fsf@gnu.org> <201106211652.p5LGqIGr016636@beta.mvs.co.il> <83wrgfumh7.fsf@gnu.org> <201106211759.p5LHxpiT008325@beta.mvs.co.il> <83hb7gvrfy.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1309008341 18293 80.91.229.12 (25 Jun 2011 13:25:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 13:25:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ehud@unix.mvs.co.il, miles@gnu.org, stephen@xemacs.org, cloos@jhcloos.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 25 15:25:36 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QaSrf-0004gp-UJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 15:25:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35766 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QaSrf-00076d-5x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44583) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QaSrR-00076U-AR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QaSrP-0005ti-UK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:21 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:22579 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QaSrM-0005sU-Ig; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:16 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAN3dBU5MCqDH/2dsb2JhbABTp0d4iHTBV4YwBJ4RhCk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,424,1304308800"; d="scan'208";a="117113453" Original-Received: from 76-10-160-199.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.160.199]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 25 Jun 2011 09:25:15 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7814058FD6; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:25:15 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83hb7gvrfy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:16:01 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:140958 Archived-At: > the one that uses Arabic, copy/paste it into *scratch* in Emacs 24 > with bidi-display-reordering turned on, and replace every '<' and '>' > there with either '-' (a number separator) or a digit. The result is > still unreadable gibberish, and in the case of digits it's even less > readable. Oh, yes, yuck. Thanks for the explanation. > And second, using text properties for overriding bidi properties is > not a good idea at all, because bidi.c works below the level that pays > attention to text properties. I know. > Bottom line, using the directional control characters is the best way > of adapting the visual appearance to user expectations when displaying > plain text. OK. >> Indeed, for the buffer names it seems perfectly acceptable since we >> generate them ourselves and they don't go very far. I'm not sure why >> Eli doesn't like this solution. > I don't like the proliferation of directional marks that this will > bring. I hoped that we will need these directional control characters > only very rarely. These have problems on TTYs, and even in GUI > sessions they are visible by default (as thin spaces), so they will > disrupt the visual appearance and cursor motion. We will need to have > them everywhere, e.g. in the prompt displayed by read-buffer and in > other places, if we want buffer names to look the same in all > contexts. But since this is the best available solution, I'm willing > to try; maybe I'm wrong and the results will not be that bad after > all. We should make them display as nothing at all (but obey the display-table, of course, so they can be made visible when needed). Stefan